According to a couple of subtle hints in a few other threads it seems that we are to expect the skill merge to happen pretty soon now (during next month?) and i started to wonder - what will happen to LE's after the merge? The ME's are obviously superior in damage right now and looking at the Codiax forged weapons list, the LE's only have one advantage, which is their weight. To be honest, i personally would prefer the higher damage.
Hence, i had a few questions about the specifics of the state of LE/ME's after the merge:
- Are currently existing LE's going to be adjusted to be equal to ME's in any way?
- If not adjusted then is there going to be any other benefits for LE's to make them more attractive?
DEFOL
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/21/2012 07:19 AM CDT
Currently I think you are probably right. LE's will still maintain their slightly lower RT which is a benefit. Balance may become a larger factor in 3.0 as well, since damage is getting reduced, defenses are getting upped etc. Just may be easier to hit with an LE vs ME because of the balance difference.
>>- Are currently existing LE's going to be adjusted to be equal to ME's in any way?
>>- If not adjusted then is there going to be any other benefits for LE's to make them more attractive?
Kodius said he is looking into to possibilities to help lighter weapons - so I think "something" will probably happen. But no word on what or when that may be.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>- Are currently existing LE's going to be adjusted to be equal to ME's in any way?
>>- If not adjusted then is there going to be any other benefits for LE's to make them more attractive?
Kodius said he is looking into to possibilities to help lighter weapons - so I think "something" will probably happen. But no word on what or when that may be.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/21/2012 09:14 AM CDT
>>what will happen to LE's after the merge?
Nothing that notable. People who opted to use the heaviest LEs possible might move to ME, depending, but others will keep using the same weapons they always did.
>>LE's only have one advantage, which is their weight. To be honest, i personally would prefer the higher damage.
3.0 is going to diminish the "get as heavy a weapon as you can swing" mindset as the default mindset. Someone who can swing a ~150 stone greatsword might still want to consider using a 3 stone dagger instead.
>>Are currently existing LE's going to be adjusted to be equal to ME's in any way? If not adjusted then is there going to be any other benefits for LE's to make them more attractive?
No. Keep in mind that in 3.0, weapon density is a good indicator of how something should appraise. Right now, LEs go from 2-5 and MEs go from 5-7. There is very little crossover already, so it's not like anything will need to be rebalanced. The 5 density LEs and 5 density MEs are pretty comparable as it is. 7 density MEs and 7 density HEs are also pretty comparable, too.
Any minor discrepancies will probably be solved by how smaller weapons will have a to-hit bonus. So if a 5 density LE looks "worse" than a 5 density ME by one or two points, the lighter weapon might be better at landing a hit. I'm not entirely sure how to-hit is being addressed, though: if it's based on weapon type and/or weight.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
Nothing that notable. People who opted to use the heaviest LEs possible might move to ME, depending, but others will keep using the same weapons they always did.
>>LE's only have one advantage, which is their weight. To be honest, i personally would prefer the higher damage.
3.0 is going to diminish the "get as heavy a weapon as you can swing" mindset as the default mindset. Someone who can swing a ~150 stone greatsword might still want to consider using a 3 stone dagger instead.
>>Are currently existing LE's going to be adjusted to be equal to ME's in any way? If not adjusted then is there going to be any other benefits for LE's to make them more attractive?
No. Keep in mind that in 3.0, weapon density is a good indicator of how something should appraise. Right now, LEs go from 2-5 and MEs go from 5-7. There is very little crossover already, so it's not like anything will need to be rebalanced. The 5 density LEs and 5 density MEs are pretty comparable as it is. 7 density MEs and 7 density HEs are also pretty comparable, too.
Any minor discrepancies will probably be solved by how smaller weapons will have a to-hit bonus. So if a 5 density LE looks "worse" than a 5 density ME by one or two points, the lighter weapon might be better at landing a hit. I'm not entirely sure how to-hit is being addressed, though: if it's based on weapon type and/or weight.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/21/2012 07:36 PM CDT
if weapons developed on the ME "prototype" still continue to give the "Awkward, but usuable" messaging, then there will still be a place for prototype "LE" in the arsenal of a backstabbing weapon for thieves.
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
DEFOL
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/22/2012 01:52 AM CDT
Okay, thanks. So, there could be something more to LE's other than just being expensive tooth picks.
<<Just may be easier to hit with an LE vs ME because of the balance difference.
<<Keep in mind that in 3.0, weapon density is a good indicator of how something should appraise.
I don't know anything about crafting or density but from what you're saying 7 over 5 is almost a 30% difference. The to-hit-bonus might be just the push it needs to get back on the board.
<<backstabbing weapon for thieves
That's surely to be the main focus for the LE's then if this to-hit-bonus does not play out.
<<Just may be easier to hit with an LE vs ME because of the balance difference.
<<Keep in mind that in 3.0, weapon density is a good indicator of how something should appraise.
I don't know anything about crafting or density but from what you're saying 7 over 5 is almost a 30% difference. The to-hit-bonus might be just the push it needs to get back on the board.
<<backstabbing weapon for thieves
That's surely to be the main focus for the LE's then if this to-hit-bonus does not play out.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/22/2012 05:44 AM CDT
<<backstabbing weapon for thieves>>
yes, the only other guild with a specific req for LE is necros, and once i hit the # with LE for the 150th circle req, i stopped training it <actually, i took the weapon up to 300, mainly because i didn't want to leave it at 296 - and I use 2he as my main weapon with that character.
philospher of the big knife. :-)
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
yes, the only other guild with a specific req for LE is necros, and once i hit the # with LE for the 150th circle req, i stopped training it <actually, i took the weapon up to 300, mainly because i didn't want to leave it at 296 - and I use 2he as my main weapon with that character.
philospher of the big knife. :-)
/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius
LHALLFIN
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/23/2012 07:05 PM CDT
My question for months now has just been about the RT.
I could be completely out of the loop, but isn't it right that LE and ME weapons will still exist (when you app the weapon), so will and ME still be 3 seconds and LE will be 1?
Or will both be 3... or more, or something completely different with combat 3.0.
That said, I've been stocking up weapons to over all bases, LEs that have high balance, LEs that have more even balance/suited, and MEs along the same lines.
Ready to try em all out in a X3 world.
That said, if LE remains 1 second... that's more than likely what I'll go with.
RAIST
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
08/23/2012 08:20 PM CDT
>I could be completely out of the loop, but isn't it right that LE and ME weapons will still exist (when you app the weapon), so will and ME still be 3 seconds and LE will be 1?
Based on what we've been told, the only thing that will change will be they both will train the same skill. Assuming the systems themselves don't change (for example, who knows what dual wielding will become), none of the bonuses and restrictions in place now will change.
Beyond that, nothing specific has been said, that I'm aware of.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Based on what we've been told, the only thing that will change will be they both will train the same skill. Assuming the systems themselves don't change (for example, who knows what dual wielding will become), none of the bonuses and restrictions in place now will change.
Beyond that, nothing specific has been said, that I'm aware of.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
DR-KODIUS
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
11/05/2012 03:59 PM CST
In general, all weapons except LE and LB will see RTs going up by 1 second over what they are now, and take 30% more stats to work off. 2 handers will have a hair more RT than Heavy weapons as well. Light edge weapons will keep their current RTs though with a 50% chance of 1 second extra RT.
This will allow RT reducing abilities that just could not exist before. How do you reduce a 2 second RT without seriously unbalancing things... It will also make it harder to consistently use heavy weapons by circle 40.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
This will allow RT reducing abilities that just could not exist before. How do you reduce a 2 second RT without seriously unbalancing things... It will also make it harder to consistently use heavy weapons by circle 40.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
SHADOW7988
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
11/05/2012 05:31 PM CST
I like hearing all of this.
I'm still hoping for some more feats though with yes definitely LEs, but wouldn't mind seeing some of the other weapons with feats as well.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I'm still hoping for some more feats though with yes definitely LEs, but wouldn't mind seeing some of the other weapons with feats as well.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
LHALLFIN
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
11/06/2012 12:21 AM CST
Thanks for the post Kod
Now I'm just left wondering if Backstab falls under "in general"
I've always been an ME backstabber, but if an LE backstab is going to be 1/2 and ME backstab is going to be 4 AND it takes several more backstabs to kill one critter...
WTS altered tyrium thrusting blade. (just kidding I'd never sell it)
:*(
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Fate of LE's after the skill merge
12/20/2012 09:17 AM CST
>It will also make it harder to consistently use heavy weapons by circle 40.
I'm presently training a barb that uses HB and HE as main weapons. I don't expect to swing them quickly, but I find that learning HE and HB is orders of magnitude slower than something that swings quicker, assuming hits. Since the RT for swinging heavier weapons is increasing, and heavier weapons will be hitting harder (presumably resulting in less hits-to-kill) is the XP earned being shifted towards damage done, to equalize training rates?
I understand this is happening to TM, making fully aimed shots that hit harder grant more xp than snap casts that graze, so I'm assuming/hoping it is also true for physical weapons?
I'm presently training a barb that uses HB and HE as main weapons. I don't expect to swing them quickly, but I find that learning HE and HB is orders of magnitude slower than something that swings quicker, assuming hits. Since the RT for swinging heavier weapons is increasing, and heavier weapons will be hitting harder (presumably resulting in less hits-to-kill) is the XP earned being shifted towards damage done, to equalize training rates?
I understand this is happening to TM, making fully aimed shots that hit harder grant more xp than snap casts that graze, so I'm assuming/hoping it is also true for physical weapons?
