Does anyone know what the best appraisal you can get on a storebought or forged stiletto is? I'd like to use them as my primary LE weapon but they just don't seem to compare to katars. Even if you make them heavy or whatever you do in the forge, is there way to make a superior stiletto? Anyone willing to try out for me? How about store bought?
Here's what I have right now.
>app stil careful
A gleaming silver stiletto is a light edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
fair puncture damage
poor slice damage
poor impact damage
You are certain that the stiletto is excellently balanced and is dismally suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the gleaming silver stiletto is somewhat flimsy, and is in pristine condition.
The gleaming silver stiletto is made with metal.
You are certain that the gleaming silver stiletto weighs exactly 8 stones.
You are certain that the gleaming silver stiletto is worth exactly 60 lirums.
Roundtime: 16 seconds.
I understand that there are limitations based on what kind of weapon it is, and what the weapon actually looks like. I don't expect ME stats on a LE weapon, but I just wondered how good a stiletto could be made to be. Thanks!
- Terra
TERRA
JMF90
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 04:16 PM CDT
Special metals aside, the best you can expect on a stiletto is probably about mid-range fair puncture. (Mine come out as 22 puncture, and I can grind them to 24 or 25.) With the current combat mechanics they are a poor weapon except for use with backstab. You really can't compare the performance of a stiletto with a katar, except in very specific circumstances.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
TERRA
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 06:31 PM CDT
Ahh, thank you JMF. You gave me exactly the answer I was looking for.
I really hope with new combat and creation that there will be a niche for different types of weapons within a weapon class.
- Terra
I really hope with new combat and creation that there will be a niche for different types of weapons within a weapon class.
- Terra
SHADOW7988
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 07:17 PM CDT
I am somewhat worried. Daggers aren't the only LE, but when the Barbarian Advocate was talking about the Creation system and briefed the Barbarians at a Barbarian Bonfire he made it sound like a capped LE would be easier (he used Dagger as an example if I recall correclty), then when out to say that some of the heavier weapons would work themselves up to the 'global limit' [system limit (or whatever the highest rank is considered)]
I am hopeful that Daggers won't be the end all of the LE system, and that Katars won't be the only LE worth using.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I am hopeful that Daggers won't be the end all of the LE system, and that Katars won't be the only LE worth using.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
BINU
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 07:22 PM CDT
>>like a capped LE would be easier
You should remember, I think, that under the new combat system less damaging might not necessarily be a bad thing. I would hope that it certainly won't end like the current system, with bastard swords being the indisputable best and light edges relegated only to backstabs and novelty.
Why you would be concerned that a dagger does less damage - did I read that write? It seems silly, to me, that you might be concerned that a dagger does less damage than a two-handed sword. The key is using other methods (roundtime, combat feats, bonuses to stuff like balance and position, etc.) to make daggers just as desirable as two-handed swords, with each occupying a different niche in the weapons environment.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
You should remember, I think, that under the new combat system less damaging might not necessarily be a bad thing. I would hope that it certainly won't end like the current system, with bastard swords being the indisputable best and light edges relegated only to backstabs and novelty.
Why you would be concerned that a dagger does less damage - did I read that write? It seems silly, to me, that you might be concerned that a dagger does less damage than a two-handed sword. The key is using other methods (roundtime, combat feats, bonuses to stuff like balance and position, etc.) to make daggers just as desirable as two-handed swords, with each occupying a different niche in the weapons environment.
Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms
PBOMBARD
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 07:22 PM CDT
Short swords can be rather wicked.
My forged-quality short sword kills things about as fast as my mirror axe, at equal ranks. Plus it is Fairly Sturdy construction.
-pete
My forged-quality short sword kills things about as fast as my mirror axe, at equal ranks. Plus it is Fairly Sturdy construction.
-pete
SHADOW7988
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 07:30 PM CDT
DIMINISHEDANGEL,
I see what your saying.
I wasn't trying to relate to just damage.
However if something gets capped at 300 skill level vs 1000, 2000 (what is the system limit for skills) which do you think will have more substance, abilities, or advantages (whichever word you want to use).
For me I am guessing the higher the skill the more 'pluses' the item will have.
So once again I am worried that LE will be left by the wayside, but I am hopeful that since Barbarians mainly look for heavier weapons (sorry if it seems steorotypical, just don't think of a lot of Barbarians primary swinging a kukhri of doom, but a Broadsword, or Claymore or Greatsword or a Mammoth Mace).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I see what your saying.
I wasn't trying to relate to just damage.
However if something gets capped at 300 skill level vs 1000, 2000 (what is the system limit for skills) which do you think will have more substance, abilities, or advantages (whichever word you want to use).
For me I am guessing the higher the skill the more 'pluses' the item will have.
So once again I am worried that LE will be left by the wayside, but I am hopeful that since Barbarians mainly look for heavier weapons (sorry if it seems steorotypical, just don't think of a lot of Barbarians primary swinging a kukhri of doom, but a Broadsword, or Claymore or Greatsword or a Mammoth Mace).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
RAIST
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 07:54 PM CDT
The impression I got from a variety of conversations is that while a dagger may cap early, a jambaya(sp?) may cap higher, a katar even higher, etc. etc.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
TERRA
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 08:38 PM CDT
So under the current forging system, I'd like to try and forge some LE weapons myself.
What kind of ranks and stats would I need to forge a decent quality LE weapon..
So ranks (what skills, I'd assume mech and LE) and stats and anything else I might need?
Thanks in advance. I know nothing about forging.
- Terra
What kind of ranks and stats would I need to forge a decent quality LE weapon..
So ranks (what skills, I'd assume mech and LE) and stats and anything else I might need?
Thanks in advance. I know nothing about forging.
- Terra
BEYONDDISBELIEF
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 09:30 PM CDT
Current forging uses Forging Factor (FF) to determine the quality of the product.
There are 3 classes of weapons (Edged, Blunts, Polearms) and 2 classes of Armors (Chains, Plates).
FF is composed of your skill ranks in all members of that particular class + Mech Lore.
For example, Edged would be using LE, ME, HE, 2HE, and Mech Lore.
The current agreed formula is 0.6 * skill ranks in the specific weapon type, plus 0.3 * the average of ranks of other weapons within the class, plus 0.1 * Mech Lore (remember, this is all conjured by players)
If you had 300 Ranks in LE, 100 ranks in ME 200 Ranks in HE, 300 ranks in 2HE, and 400 ranks in Mech Lore,
then you'd have 300*0.6 + AVG(100,200,300)*0.3 + 400*0.1
= 180 + 60 + 40 = 280 FF
With about 300 FF I was forging Katars a couple weeks ago and they only have like fair slice and poor everything else or something, pretty crappy.
AFAIK most of the Barb's bonus is in the grinding requirements; they require much lower FF to be able to grind, and that's where the bulk of the improvement to weapons come from.
My notes indicate that Rezzian once posted that he had over 340 FF before he was able to grind his weapon.
RIP Tachid. Thank you for all the laughs.
(17 Akr., 394 ~ 5 Uth., 397)
There are 3 classes of weapons (Edged, Blunts, Polearms) and 2 classes of Armors (Chains, Plates).
FF is composed of your skill ranks in all members of that particular class + Mech Lore.
For example, Edged would be using LE, ME, HE, 2HE, and Mech Lore.
The current agreed formula is 0.6 * skill ranks in the specific weapon type, plus 0.3 * the average of ranks of other weapons within the class, plus 0.1 * Mech Lore (remember, this is all conjured by players)
If you had 300 Ranks in LE, 100 ranks in ME 200 Ranks in HE, 300 ranks in 2HE, and 400 ranks in Mech Lore,
then you'd have 300*0.6 + AVG(100,200,300)*0.3 + 400*0.1
= 180 + 60 + 40 = 280 FF
With about 300 FF I was forging Katars a couple weeks ago and they only have like fair slice and poor everything else or something, pretty crappy.
AFAIK most of the Barb's bonus is in the grinding requirements; they require much lower FF to be able to grind, and that's where the bulk of the improvement to weapons come from.
My notes indicate that Rezzian once posted that he had over 340 FF before he was able to grind his weapon.
RIP Tachid. Thank you for all the laughs.
(17 Akr., 394 ~ 5 Uth., 397)
JMF90
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 10:09 PM CDT
>What method do you use to measure it as 22, 23, etc?
A ton of comparisons and a large spreadsheet.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
A ton of comparisons and a large spreadsheet.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
JMF90
Re: stiletto
04/17/2010 10:12 PM CDT
Pretty sure that formula is wrong, even though it is commonly accepted. Specifically, I believe that mech lore is a larger factor.
>AFAIK most of the Barb's bonus is in the grinding requirements; they require much lower FF to be able to grind, and that's where the bulk of the improvement to edged weapons come from.
Agreed. Since you can't grind for impact, Barbarians have less of an advantage in forging blunts. Likewise with Paladins and armor fitting being terrible.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
>AFAIK most of the Barb's bonus is in the grinding requirements; they require much lower FF to be able to grind, and that's where the bulk of the improvement to edged weapons come from.
Agreed. Since you can't grind for impact, Barbarians have less of an advantage in forging blunts. Likewise with Paladins and armor fitting being terrible.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
SHADOW7988
Re: stiletto
04/18/2010 12:34 AM CDT
Funny thing is there is a Jambiya and a Jambaya, and the only difference is one is also an Light Thrown besides being an LE, while the other one isn't.
I am disappointed if the Katar is going to be the top slice of LE (and no I wasn't think, puncture, slice, and impact).
I was more hoping for a few, to maybe several styles that scale to the top.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I am disappointed if the Katar is going to be the top slice of LE (and no I wasn't think, puncture, slice, and impact).
I was more hoping for a few, to maybe several styles that scale to the top.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
RAIST
Re: stiletto
04/18/2010 01:11 AM CDT
The list I gave is in no way official, just a random collection of names to illustrate the idea.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
BULGRIM
Re: stiletto
04/18/2010 03:31 AM CDT
Where can one find this spreadsheet, or is it a personally kept one? I would LOVE to find out the numbers for my greatsword.
Battle Lord Wartug Skullcleaver
Gor'Tog Barbarian
"You live and die by the only thing you can control: your choices. Choose wisely."
Battle Lord Wartug Skullcleaver
Gor'Tog Barbarian
"You live and die by the only thing you can control: your choices. Choose wisely."
JMF90
Re: stiletto
04/18/2010 11:02 AM CDT
>Where can one find this spreadsheet, or is it a personally kept one? I would LOVE to find out the numbers for my greatsword.
It's a personal thing. I have a collection of forged items I compare to. So if it isn't in TF, forget it.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
It's a personal thing. I have a collection of forged items I compare to. So if it isn't in TF, forget it.
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: stiletto
05/24/2010 02:02 PM CDT
>>Short swords can be rather wicked.
I seen a forged Damite <sp?> short sword that was mod puncture, well or excellently balanced (can't remember) with well construction.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
I seen a forged Damite <sp?> short sword that was mod puncture, well or excellently balanced (can't remember) with well construction.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
