I wish LE's were a little better. This is an example of how really skilled LE'LB users can be. This weapon is a karambit and its pretty sweet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O6MchAeAkc
MACDOUGALLW3
BEVERAGEK
Re: Real LE's
03/13/2009 01:58 AM CDT
Sweet.
Slit
Contest 1
Light Edge + Brawling(attacker) vs. Evasion + Escaping(defender)
Contest 2
Agility(attacker) vs. Reflex(defender)
Contest 3
Standard attack to-hit contest.
If the defender fails both the 1st and 2nd contest he is denied his shield/parry skills in the 3rd contest. This particular maneuver is a fierce slashing attack which targets the opponent's neck in an attempt to pierce the jugular. If successful it has a very high chance to cause severe bleeding.
__
~Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leicollagefinal.jpg
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner_v3.xls
Slit
Contest 1
Light Edge + Brawling(attacker) vs. Evasion + Escaping(defender)
Contest 2
Agility(attacker) vs. Reflex(defender)
Contest 3
Standard attack to-hit contest.
If the defender fails both the 1st and 2nd contest he is denied his shield/parry skills in the 3rd contest. This particular maneuver is a fierce slashing attack which targets the opponent's neck in an attempt to pierce the jugular. If successful it has a very high chance to cause severe bleeding.
__
~Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leicollagefinal.jpg
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner_v3.xls
JMF90
RAIST
Re: Real LE's
05/21/2009 11:49 AM CDT
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O6MchAeAkc
That's spiffy, if you're fighting an unarmored opponent. Who's brawling.
Never bring a fist to a knife fight.
If not, you're in trouble.
Now why do I picture a Gnome standing on a Gor'Tog's back stabbing him repeatedly, while the Tog goes, "Huh, something's tickling me."
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
That's spiffy, if you're fighting an unarmored opponent. Who's brawling.
Never bring a fist to a knife fight.
If not, you're in trouble.
Now why do I picture a Gnome standing on a Gor'Tog's back stabbing him repeatedly, while the Tog goes, "Huh, something's tickling me."
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
LUTHAIS
Re: Real LE's
05/21/2009 12:45 PM CDT
Awesome video, but one thing I have to mention is that in real life the value of non-ranged weapons in a fight greatly decreases as the skill of the combatants increases.
Larger, deadlier weapons are better at compensating for lack of skill, but smaller and lighter weapons retain more usefulness at higher levels of skill.
True masters can fight armed opponents bare handed just fine. At that point, there is very little difference between using a knife and an umbrella. Just have to change up your moves to remain in control. Really, it all boils down to general fighting skill, physical fitness, intuition, and luck (i.e. whoever makes the first mistake is likely to lose).
I do have to admit that it is odd that the most effective weapons in RL tend to be knives and staffs, which are nowhere near the top of the list for the best weapons in DR. Of course, DR has magic and fantastical monsters that could make weapons more valuable... Bah, its all fun, who cares!
Of course, this is just my opinion. I do not officially know any fighting styles, but I used to spar pretty regularly (the good ol' days!) with friends who are top notch fighters that compete professionally. Maybe it was just the specific styles they used... dunno.
Murithi
Larger, deadlier weapons are better at compensating for lack of skill, but smaller and lighter weapons retain more usefulness at higher levels of skill.
True masters can fight armed opponents bare handed just fine. At that point, there is very little difference between using a knife and an umbrella. Just have to change up your moves to remain in control. Really, it all boils down to general fighting skill, physical fitness, intuition, and luck (i.e. whoever makes the first mistake is likely to lose).
I do have to admit that it is odd that the most effective weapons in RL tend to be knives and staffs, which are nowhere near the top of the list for the best weapons in DR. Of course, DR has magic and fantastical monsters that could make weapons more valuable... Bah, its all fun, who cares!
Of course, this is just my opinion. I do not officially know any fighting styles, but I used to spar pretty regularly (the good ol' days!) with friends who are top notch fighters that compete professionally. Maybe it was just the specific styles they used... dunno.
Murithi
JMF90
Re: Real LE's
05/21/2009 12:50 PM CDT
>I do have to admit that it is odd that the most effective weapons in RL tend to be knives and staffs, which are nowhere near the top of the list for the best weapons in DR. Of course, DR has magic and fantastical monsters that could make weapons more valuable... Bah, its all fun, who cares!
I think that it's more a matter of what type of weapons people regularly have access to. I mean, a well trained fighter with a large sword versus an unarmored opponent with a knife wouldn't be a fight. Swords reigned supreme until ranged weapons took over.
There's a funny police video on youtube where they subdue a sword wielding guy by using a broom, but they just overwhelmed his multi.
I think that it's more a matter of what type of weapons people regularly have access to. I mean, a well trained fighter with a large sword versus an unarmored opponent with a knife wouldn't be a fight. Swords reigned supreme until ranged weapons took over.
There's a funny police video on youtube where they subdue a sword wielding guy by using a broom, but they just overwhelmed his multi.
ROBERGEA1
Re: Real LE's
05/21/2009 01:11 PM CDT
He should have backtrained his multi before moving up to police. Hopefully he had enough concentration left to put up khri cunning while he waited to see the judge.
DAENAR-DR
Re: Real LE's
05/22/2009 02:22 AM CDT
>> I do have to admit that it is odd that the most effective weapons in RL tend to be knives and staffs, which are nowhere near the top of the list for the best weapons in DR. Of course, DR has magic and fantastical monsters that could make weapons more valuable... Bah, its all fun, who cares!
This is completely not true. It's because you don't see anyone who trains regular in halberds/pikes/swords/greatswords etc. All you see is knives etc.
I guarantee a master in ANY big weapon will destroy an equivalent master in staff/knives.
I used to take Moores chinese martial arts in California, and we would have this "camp" where we trained, but also the masters who trained in "big weapons" did demonstrations. It's insanity.
Seeing two real swords whirling around in someones hands doing combat techniques and maneuvers is breath taking.
Words are things, and a small drop of ink, falling like dew upon a thought, produces that which makes thousands, perhaps millions, think.
- Lord Byron
This is completely not true. It's because you don't see anyone who trains regular in halberds/pikes/swords/greatswords etc. All you see is knives etc.
I guarantee a master in ANY big weapon will destroy an equivalent master in staff/knives.
I used to take Moores chinese martial arts in California, and we would have this "camp" where we trained, but also the masters who trained in "big weapons" did demonstrations. It's insanity.
Seeing two real swords whirling around in someones hands doing combat techniques and maneuvers is breath taking.
Words are things, and a small drop of ink, falling like dew upon a thought, produces that which makes thousands, perhaps millions, think.
- Lord Byron
INNEZ
Re: Real LE's
05/22/2009 08:44 AM CDT
>I do have to admit that it is odd that the most effective weapons in RL tend to be knives and staffs, which are nowhere near the top of the list for the best weapons in DR. Of course, DR has magic and fantastical monsters that could make weapons more valuable... Bah, its all fun, who cares!
I find that is because the real world is obsessed with real-life scenarios (which is an incredibly limiting concept), and so training (and therefore demonstration) focus is shifting towards socially acceptable weapons, such as knives (that are easily concealed), and sticks (which are presumed innocent, or simply easily acquired).
Most fights these days happen in a phonebooth scenario, such as some guy knocking over another guy's pint, or leering at his wench from all of half a foot away. When there is no space to swing a sword, a knife is superior. That's why the military is armed with knives as their CQB weapon of choice: they use it when they don't have the space to shoot the other guy.
>True masters can fight armed opponents bare handed just fine. At that point, there is very little difference between using a knife and an umbrella. Just have to change up your moves to remain in control. Really, it all boils down to general fighting skill, physical fitness, intuition, and luck (i.e. whoever makes the first mistake is likely to lose).
This is also a pretty ridiculous statement. Skilled fighters can prevail against armed opponents, but if you put two fighters of equal skill against each other, one armed with a knife, the other with an umbrella, the knife fighter will be the one walking away from that encounter. Skill can compensate for a disadvantage in equipment, but it will never eliminate it.
"In the next hundred days I will strongly consider losing my cool" - Barack Obama
I find that is because the real world is obsessed with real-life scenarios (which is an incredibly limiting concept), and so training (and therefore demonstration) focus is shifting towards socially acceptable weapons, such as knives (that are easily concealed), and sticks (which are presumed innocent, or simply easily acquired).
Most fights these days happen in a phonebooth scenario, such as some guy knocking over another guy's pint, or leering at his wench from all of half a foot away. When there is no space to swing a sword, a knife is superior. That's why the military is armed with knives as their CQB weapon of choice: they use it when they don't have the space to shoot the other guy.
>True masters can fight armed opponents bare handed just fine. At that point, there is very little difference between using a knife and an umbrella. Just have to change up your moves to remain in control. Really, it all boils down to general fighting skill, physical fitness, intuition, and luck (i.e. whoever makes the first mistake is likely to lose).
This is also a pretty ridiculous statement. Skilled fighters can prevail against armed opponents, but if you put two fighters of equal skill against each other, one armed with a knife, the other with an umbrella, the knife fighter will be the one walking away from that encounter. Skill can compensate for a disadvantage in equipment, but it will never eliminate it.
"In the next hundred days I will strongly consider losing my cool" - Barack Obama
LUTHAIS
Re: Real LE's
05/22/2009 09:10 AM CDT
Not trying to be confrontational, but I still have to disagree about the larger weapons. I have gone with friends to many professional competetions (they competed, not me) where combatants where both unarmed, armed with larger weapons, and everything in between.
The problem with larger weapons, as it has already been pointed out, is that they need a larger area to use properly. If I get past the first attack (not too hard if you have anything to parry with, little harder if you are just dodging), I can get in close enough where that sword/spear/halberd is close to useless for offense and only slightly better for defense, yet my knife works just fine. And there is really nothing the opponent can do about it. This is why fighting styles that focus on throws and grapples are so effective. Its very difficult to keep a certain distance from an opponent if they are intent in closing that gap.
As for the difference between umbrella and knife (just a random example), the only difference is that a well-placed knife strike is more likely to kill you outright. I will definately concede that. If you are sparring or attempting to subdue, a good fighter can improvise and use just about anything as an equally effective weapon. Emphasis on the "good" part there... For most people, even really skilled fighters, weapons do matter. But for the true masters, the nature of the weapon used does not matter as much. But it does still matter a little, and a little is often all the advantage that is needed.
Anyhow, was not really trying to stir anything up. I am only speaking on what I have experienced first hand. I'll bow out of this one and be content to agree to disagree.
The problem with larger weapons, as it has already been pointed out, is that they need a larger area to use properly. If I get past the first attack (not too hard if you have anything to parry with, little harder if you are just dodging), I can get in close enough where that sword/spear/halberd is close to useless for offense and only slightly better for defense, yet my knife works just fine. And there is really nothing the opponent can do about it. This is why fighting styles that focus on throws and grapples are so effective. Its very difficult to keep a certain distance from an opponent if they are intent in closing that gap.
As for the difference between umbrella and knife (just a random example), the only difference is that a well-placed knife strike is more likely to kill you outright. I will definately concede that. If you are sparring or attempting to subdue, a good fighter can improvise and use just about anything as an equally effective weapon. Emphasis on the "good" part there... For most people, even really skilled fighters, weapons do matter. But for the true masters, the nature of the weapon used does not matter as much. But it does still matter a little, and a little is often all the advantage that is needed.
Anyhow, was not really trying to stir anything up. I am only speaking on what I have experienced first hand. I'll bow out of this one and be content to agree to disagree.
INNEZ
Re: Real LE's
05/22/2009 09:26 AM CDT
>I have gone with friends to many professional competetions (they competed, not me) where combatants where both unarmed, armed with larger weapons, and everything in between.
You went to competitions where the fighters are allowed to use all skills at their disposal to slice, stab, and otherwise maim each other with bladed weapons? My next holiday is definitely going to be to your country.
I think the main key to our disagreement here is the view we take on "real life". Civilized society has moved on from our warlike past, so most of these tests we see are in artificial scenarios of exhibitions, or tournaments, both with very specific rules, traditionally including provisions against actions such as skewering your opponent to prevent him closing distance. They are closer to reality than the games we play in Lanival's Realms, but still a few steps removed through artificial limitations.
"In the next hundred days I will strongly consider losing my cool" - Barack Obama
You went to competitions where the fighters are allowed to use all skills at their disposal to slice, stab, and otherwise maim each other with bladed weapons? My next holiday is definitely going to be to your country.
I think the main key to our disagreement here is the view we take on "real life". Civilized society has moved on from our warlike past, so most of these tests we see are in artificial scenarios of exhibitions, or tournaments, both with very specific rules, traditionally including provisions against actions such as skewering your opponent to prevent him closing distance. They are closer to reality than the games we play in Lanival's Realms, but still a few steps removed through artificial limitations.
"In the next hundred days I will strongly consider losing my cool" - Barack Obama
DR-OOLAN
Re: Real LE's
05/23/2009 10:55 AM CDT
>>The problem with larger weapons, as it has already been pointed out, is that they need a larger area to use properly. If I get past the first attack (not too hard if you have anything to parry with, little harder if you are just dodging), I can get in close enough where that sword/spear/halberd is close to useless for offense and only slightly better for defense, yet my knife works just fine. And there is really nothing the opponent can do about it. This is why fighting styles that focus on throws and grapples are so effective. Its very difficult to keep a certain distance from an opponent if they are intent in closing that gap.
This may be, but the point of those larger weapons is often either to reach an opponent that is too far away from you for smaller weapons or else to keep them too far away to reach you. However, none of that applies to DR because I can use a 10 foot pike on the guy punching me in the face.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
This may be, but the point of those larger weapons is often either to reach an opponent that is too far away from you for smaller weapons or else to keep them too far away to reach you. However, none of that applies to DR because I can use a 10 foot pike on the guy punching me in the face.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Real LE's
05/23/2009 01:28 PM CDT
What Innez is saying is pretty much true.
For the most part they are no True Sword Masters anymore, it just doesn't exist. The attacks and techniques taught today for "larger weapons" aren't the same ones taught in the middle ages. Same goes for Japanese sword masters.
Because the training of swords has been toned down to a display or tournament where the combatants aren't facing life or death the techniques evolved to techniques that were less defensive and outright brutal to ones that were more "flashy" and won't just maim the person outright. Even Samurai one shot kill techniques taught today would be considered suicidal by the old standards.
Little Known fact, European Sword Masters were considered some of the best in the world during their days. Its actually arguable who would be better able to kill one another, an Asian Sword Master or a European. However, unlike Asian cultures we did not try to preserve the techniques and rather just forgot about them. Daggers techniques were still taught for the reasons already listed.
_______________________
[Space For Rent]
For the most part they are no True Sword Masters anymore, it just doesn't exist. The attacks and techniques taught today for "larger weapons" aren't the same ones taught in the middle ages. Same goes for Japanese sword masters.
Because the training of swords has been toned down to a display or tournament where the combatants aren't facing life or death the techniques evolved to techniques that were less defensive and outright brutal to ones that were more "flashy" and won't just maim the person outright. Even Samurai one shot kill techniques taught today would be considered suicidal by the old standards.
Little Known fact, European Sword Masters were considered some of the best in the world during their days. Its actually arguable who would be better able to kill one another, an Asian Sword Master or a European. However, unlike Asian cultures we did not try to preserve the techniques and rather just forgot about them. Daggers techniques were still taught for the reasons already listed.
_______________________
[Space For Rent]
DAE83
Re: Real LE's
05/23/2009 01:50 PM CDT
<<For the most part they are no True Sword Masters anymore, it just doesn't exist.>>
The only thing to mark a true sword master ever was their ability to stay alive longer than those they faced. The basic techniques have always been the same, what those who learn swordsmanship do with the basics or are taught to do is was always limited by the skill of the user.
If you say there are no true sword masters anymore, then there were never any masters. The only reason you would say that today, is because killing with a sword is no longer socially acceptable or strategically rational. So its been refined into a sport where gaining points is the goal rather than striking true fatal blows.
The only thing to mark a true sword master ever was their ability to stay alive longer than those they faced. The basic techniques have always been the same, what those who learn swordsmanship do with the basics or are taught to do is was always limited by the skill of the user.
If you say there are no true sword masters anymore, then there were never any masters. The only reason you would say that today, is because killing with a sword is no longer socially acceptable or strategically rational. So its been refined into a sport where gaining points is the goal rather than striking true fatal blows.
OYSTERSLURPER
Re: Real LE's
05/23/2009 05:46 PM CDT
>That's why the military is armed with knives as their CQB weapon of choice: they use it when they don't have the space to shoot the other guy.
You use a knife because you got jumped and didn't have your weapon ready, you need to attack silently, or that's the only weapon you have left. You don't grab the knife cause you think the guy is going to be close. You adjust the way you use hold your weapon when you expect close contact.
Norm
You use a knife because you got jumped and didn't have your weapon ready, you need to attack silently, or that's the only weapon you have left. You don't grab the knife cause you think the guy is going to be close. You adjust the way you use hold your weapon when you expect close contact.
Norm
DR-OOLAN
Re: Real LE's
05/23/2009 06:01 PM CDT
Let me resolve this debate once and for all. How weapons are used in the real world is of anecdotal use here at best. It will not determine system developement and is entirely pointeless of a debate. If you wish to debate who was the best at armed combat in the middle ages or which weapons were prefered and why, it needs to happen somewhere other than these combat folders.
Thank you and have a nice day.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
Thank you and have a nice day.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
RAIST
Re: Real LE's
05/25/2009 03:17 AM CDT
>Thank you and have a nice day.
NO! I REFUSE!
I'll have a terrible day just to spite you all!
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
NO! I REFUSE!
I'll have a terrible day just to spite you all!
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: Real LE's
05/25/2009 05:28 PM CDT
> I'll have a terrible day just to spite you all!
So this is a good day to announce my evil plans for barbarian magic resistance?
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
So this is a good day to announce my evil plans for barbarian magic resistance?
- GM Dartenian
If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Real LE's
05/25/2009 05:29 PM CDT
>> So this is a good day to announce my evil plans for barbarian magic resistance?
I would have a good day if you did this.
Rev. Reene
The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"
I would have a good day if you did this.
Rev. Reene
The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"
RAIST
Re: Real LE's
05/25/2009 08:16 PM CDT
>So this is a good day to announce my evil plans for barbarian magic resistance?
Yes. And I'll find a way to complain, regardless. It's the forums, I'm obligated to complain.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Yes. And I'll find a way to complain, regardless. It's the forums, I'm obligated to complain.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
DRFREAK3
Re: Real LE's
06/24/2009 08:07 AM CDT
Uhm...i just wanted to sneak this in...
European sword techniques and Oriental are totally different.
Europeans parried a LOT...they used thick heavy weapons to bash through thick shields and armor.
Oriental style never used parrying. their style was meant to 'one hit kill'...you pull the sword from the sheath, swing, dead. One hit kill.
not that ANY of that matters anymore...its been said these things are obsolete and they are.
European sword techniques and Oriental are totally different.
Europeans parried a LOT...they used thick heavy weapons to bash through thick shields and armor.
Oriental style never used parrying. their style was meant to 'one hit kill'...you pull the sword from the sheath, swing, dead. One hit kill.
not that ANY of that matters anymore...its been said these things are obsolete and they are.
MCNALLYT
Re: Real LE's
06/24/2009 11:19 AM CDT
| Uhm...i just wanted to sneak this in... |
| European sword techniques and Oriental are totally different. |
| Europeans parried a LOT...they used thick heavy weapons to bash through thick shields and armor. |
| Oriental style never used parrying. their style was meant to 'one hit kill'...you pull the sword from the sheath, swing, dead. One hit kill. |
This is gross oversimplification and generalization of dozens of sword techniques across dozens of countries and thousands of years.
INNEZ
Re: Real LE's
07/03/2009 09:45 AM CDT
>Oriental style never used parrying. their style was meant to 'one hit kill'...you pull the sword from the sheath, swing, dead. One hit kill.
Dude. That was like 1(ONE) Japanese style that focused on that element of combat. And it certainly wasn't with a light edged.
You are very wrong.
Dude. That was like 1(ONE) Japanese style that focused on that element of combat. And it certainly wasn't with a light edged.
You are very wrong.
