SUMMERSON
A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 08:13 AM CST
Please! PLEASE! I'm begging you GMs, add critical hits to monster attacks. Something where if they roll a 99 or 100, they double their crit range. The monotony and just this slow eye-wateringly boring combat is killing it for me. More "oh crap!" moments please, and don't tell me to just uphunt, obviously that's not what's intended, and we can increase the speed to mindlock to offset for "relaxing" gameplay mongers here.
P.S. More special attacks based exclusively on guild and stats will be awesome as well. Can call them Combat Maneuver attacks! For critters only!
CARDINALE01
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 10:48 AM CST
How many times are you going to make this same thread just to get shouted down by pretty much everyone else who plays the game?
Anything anyone could say about the subject was said the last time and nobody agrees with you and everyone told you how you can make it more challenging if that's what you want(hunting at level instead of underhunting like everyone does, hunting the usually deserted mobs with devastating special attacks).
Anything anyone could say about the subject was said the last time and nobody agrees with you and everyone told you how you can make it more challenging if that's what you want(hunting at level instead of underhunting like everyone does, hunting the usually deserted mobs with devastating special attacks).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 11:56 AM CST
(1) Critters with special attacks that disrupt training aren't hunted, because they disrupt training. While they're fun in invasion/quest-type scenarios, which aren't really meant for training purposes, anything that takes you out of combat earlier isn't seen as "fun" for those who know why people hunt (to train and get coins).
(2) People tell you to hunt harder things because hunting harder things causes more risk when hunting, which is what you keep wanting to have. I sometimes fight harder things just to see if I can, but it's also not an effective way to train (especially because if I'm juggling disablers the mobs can't hit me which in turn doesn't train defenses).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
(2) People tell you to hunt harder things because hunting harder things causes more risk when hunting, which is what you keep wanting to have. I sometimes fight harder things just to see if I can, but it's also not an effective way to train (especially because if I'm juggling disablers the mobs can't hit me which in turn doesn't train defenses).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 01:02 PM CST
>don't tell me to just uphunt, obviously that's not what's intended
That's exactly what's intended.
>P.S. More special attacks
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Concept:Creatures_with_special_attacks
Knock yourself out.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
That's exactly what's intended.
>P.S. More special attacks
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Concept:Creatures_with_special_attacks
Knock yourself out.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
BENNETTJ13
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 02:30 PM CST
Yeah we could add open rolls in, that way you could get one hit by creatures way lower! Wait a minute... yeah we did that. Everyone hated it.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 08:21 PM CST
Criticals already exist -- critters and players don't use different combat mechanics (eh that's not completely true but close enough to). You're just hunting too low to notice, I'd wager.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
DISCOTEQ21
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/09/2017 10:46 PM CST
Also go pick a fight with another player.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/10/2017 12:53 AM CST
Not sure if you were around a long time ago, but the old system of open rolls just sucked. I still shudder every time I see the combat phrases that indicate the critter high-rolled against you. There's nothing fun about going from full health to missing an arm.
You said "don't tell me to overhunt" but the tools are already available for you. Hunting on the very edge of your skills (with buffs included) is a great rush. I'll also recommend the TASK system, it gives out boss mobs sometimes and those feel like a real accomplishment (to me) when you win.
You said "don't tell me to overhunt" but the tools are already available for you. Hunting on the very edge of your skills (with buffs included) is a great rush. I'll also recommend the TASK system, it gives out boss mobs sometimes and those feel like a real accomplishment (to me) when you win.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/10/2017 12:16 PM CST
>>You said "don't tell me to overhunt" but the tools are already available for you. Hunting on the very edge of your skills (with buffs included) is a great rush. I'll also recommend the TASK system, it gives out boss mobs sometimes and those feel like a real accomplishment (to me) when you win.
Agreed: the thrill of a challenge is there if people want it. It's just notably different to hunt for a rush/challenge and a hunt to train.
It reminds me of how things were when I was fighting locust/crows in the Corn Maze. They were a difficult challenge, if I was careless I could die, and both of those things made the fighting fun, but they were also something I'd never ever ever hunt for the long term (aka: experience purposes). It's just not viable to risk death for an extended period of time, especially when the goal is to gain experience (which requires mobs to wail on me) as opposed to some other reward (finish a task, get a cool prize, make money, whatever).
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if DR was a totally different system which granted experience for killing a mob, this would be a different issue, but DR's experience model is based on performing tasks as opposed to finishing tasks.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Agreed: the thrill of a challenge is there if people want it. It's just notably different to hunt for a rush/challenge and a hunt to train.
It reminds me of how things were when I was fighting locust/crows in the Corn Maze. They were a difficult challenge, if I was careless I could die, and both of those things made the fighting fun, but they were also something I'd never ever ever hunt for the long term (aka: experience purposes). It's just not viable to risk death for an extended period of time, especially when the goal is to gain experience (which requires mobs to wail on me) as opposed to some other reward (finish a task, get a cool prize, make money, whatever).
I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if DR was a totally different system which granted experience for killing a mob, this would be a different issue, but DR's experience model is based on performing tasks as opposed to finishing tasks.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
LIQUIDTHEOREMS
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/10/2017 02:32 PM CST
>> It's just not viable to risk death for an extended period of time, especially when the goal is to gain experience (which requires mobs to wail on me) as opposed to some other reward (finish a task, get a cool prize, make money, whatever).
Great point.
Great point.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 02:48 AM CST
> It's just not viable to risk death for an extended period of time, especially when the goal is to gain experience (which requires mobs to wail on me) as opposed to some other reward (finish a task, get a cool prize, make money, whatever).
>Great point.
The extended period of time needed to level is the central issue in my mind. Making more difficult mobs reward more relative experience won't fix that issue.
>I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if DR was a totally different system which granted experience for killing a mob, this would be a different issue, but DR's experience model is based on performing tasks as opposed to finishing tasks.
The experience model you're discussing works well in other games because getting "better" at something is usually a flat function of skill points, which is a flat function of level, which is itself a flat function of a universal experience pool. Plant and gather 8 onions? Kill rats for the farmer? Disrupt a magic portal from opening? All in one generic experience pool. How do you possibly translate that to Dragonrealms?
If you're simply talking about moving combat experience from a repetition model to a kill model, that changes the game-ification of combat from one form to another. It solves nothing. The power scripters will just modify their combat scripts to a system of last-hitting like in DOTA.
The actual problem isn't the combat model (IMO). It's that the game is text-based and our player base demands the experience cap scales for 15 years.
>Great point.
The extended period of time needed to level is the central issue in my mind. Making more difficult mobs reward more relative experience won't fix that issue.
>I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if DR was a totally different system which granted experience for killing a mob, this would be a different issue, but DR's experience model is based on performing tasks as opposed to finishing tasks.
The experience model you're discussing works well in other games because getting "better" at something is usually a flat function of skill points, which is a flat function of level, which is itself a flat function of a universal experience pool. Plant and gather 8 onions? Kill rats for the farmer? Disrupt a magic portal from opening? All in one generic experience pool. How do you possibly translate that to Dragonrealms?
If you're simply talking about moving combat experience from a repetition model to a kill model, that changes the game-ification of combat from one form to another. It solves nothing. The power scripters will just modify their combat scripts to a system of last-hitting like in DOTA.
The actual problem isn't the combat model (IMO). It's that the game is text-based and our player base demands the experience cap scales for 15 years.
SUMMERSON
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 06:42 AM CST
You use GEP or general experience points. When you accomplish something awesome, like finish some long task or complete the story all the skills in your EXP ALL get awarded exp. Likewise, if you make the kill (or the critter dies one way or another) you get awarded GCX or general combat experience which awards X number of experience based on how much damage was done to all your combat skills.
ASHAMAN1
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 08:32 AM CST
>>You use GEP or general experience points. When you accomplish something awesome, like finish some long task or complete the story all the skills in your EXP ALL get awarded exp. Likewise, if you make the kill (or the critter dies one way or another) you get awarded GCX or general combat experience which awards X number of experience based on how much damage was done to all your combat skills.
Summerson, I think you missed the point given earlier, you're talking about a radical departure from DR's current model. DR's draw to many, especially myself, is the idea of growth by action. Most games are generic EXP based, and DR's model is novel enough to amuse. I would be very disheartened to see it change.
Samsaren
Summerson, I think you missed the point given earlier, you're talking about a radical departure from DR's current model. DR's draw to many, especially myself, is the idea of growth by action. Most games are generic EXP based, and DR's model is novel enough to amuse. I would be very disheartened to see it change.
Samsaren
SUMMERSON
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 10:06 AM CST
That's not changing, in fact the general exp will only let you go up to half of mind lock. Couple this with exp nodes up to 1000 ranks and "active XP boosters" which are on-the-spot GM custom made mini-"are you awake" room wide checker that rewards a small mind absorption boost and you WILL get active no-script players.
Right now, the game is a ghost town .. I mean I'm sorry but it's true. If everyone's look descrip got turned into "a skeletal rotting facisimilie of <player name>" and we got a "The Walking Dead" storyline Elanthia style then it would be PERFECT!
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 12:46 PM CST
>Right now, the game is a ghost town
Get involved with some RP.
SUMMERSON
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 12:55 PM CST
I tried that, and in fact the Official Order I was trying to join to facilitate that is shutting it's doors pretty soon. It's not a good time if you aren't a bot.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 12:59 PM CST
>>The experience model you're discussing works well in other games because getting "better" at something is usually a flat function of skill points, which is a flat function of level, which is itself a flat function of a universal experience pool. Plant and gather 8 onions? Kill rats for the farmer? Disrupt a magic portal from opening? All in one generic experience pool.
Agreed.
>>How do you possibly translate that to Dragonrealms?
That's my point: I don't think you can.
>>If you're simply talking about moving combat experience from a repetition model to a kill model, that changes the game-ification of combat from one form to another. It solves nothing. The power scripters will just modify their combat scripts to a system of last-hitting like in DOTA.
I'm not talking about moving anything anywhere as much as explaining why "risky" behavior is hard for experience-based rewards in this context, especially when it comes to defenses. Fighting "effectively" against difficult critters generally means, at least for me, keeping a critter from striking back while making sure I can hit it as hard/effectively as possible. Taking the Corn Maze crows/locust example I made before, after the end of each maze run I'd have my primary weapon, TM, and debilitation locked, but my defenses barely moved. Why? Because getting hit in a "difficult" setting means getting hit hard and that's bad for survival. The downside of acknowledging the obvious (try not to get hit) means defenses don't train.
>>That's not changing, in fact the general exp will only let you go up to half of mind lock. Couple this with exp nodes up to 1000 ranks and "active XP boosters" which are on-the-spot GM custom made mini-"are you awake" room wide checker that rewards a small mind absorption boost and you WILL get active no-script players.
It really sounds like the best solution to your issues is that you choose to play Gemstone.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Agreed.
>>How do you possibly translate that to Dragonrealms?
That's my point: I don't think you can.
>>If you're simply talking about moving combat experience from a repetition model to a kill model, that changes the game-ification of combat from one form to another. It solves nothing. The power scripters will just modify their combat scripts to a system of last-hitting like in DOTA.
I'm not talking about moving anything anywhere as much as explaining why "risky" behavior is hard for experience-based rewards in this context, especially when it comes to defenses. Fighting "effectively" against difficult critters generally means, at least for me, keeping a critter from striking back while making sure I can hit it as hard/effectively as possible. Taking the Corn Maze crows/locust example I made before, after the end of each maze run I'd have my primary weapon, TM, and debilitation locked, but my defenses barely moved. Why? Because getting hit in a "difficult" setting means getting hit hard and that's bad for survival. The downside of acknowledging the obvious (try not to get hit) means defenses don't train.
>>That's not changing, in fact the general exp will only let you go up to half of mind lock. Couple this with exp nodes up to 1000 ranks and "active XP boosters" which are on-the-spot GM custom made mini-"are you awake" room wide checker that rewards a small mind absorption boost and you WILL get active no-script players.
It really sounds like the best solution to your issues is that you choose to play Gemstone.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
SUMMERSON
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 02:04 PM CST
I know you know that solutions exist. I know the GMs know that solutions exist. This isn't that hard, the DR engine is very forgiving and allows you to do a ton of things. The reason why it seems like there is "no solution" is that this is ultimately a social issue. Like Liberals vs. Conservatives. Obamacare vs. Trumpcare. When the problem becomes philosophical and opinion-based in nature, there is no solution but this particular issue isn't because the issue is so esoteric that no one has the technical ability to solve it. A 15 year-old can solve this issue of scripting, EXP, the years of grinding and work that makes the game less marketable to the masses out there.
In reality, it's the HLCs and always will be the HLCs that makes the game actually advance further. (and really it isn't the HLCs fault either, just the people who actually designed the game in the first place). Anyway, I'm actually beginning -beginning mind you- to get concerned. Still holding out hope for the new hires.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 02:54 PM CST
>>I know you know that solutions exist. I know the GMs know that solutions exist. This isn't that hard, the DR engine is very forgiving and allows you to do a ton of things.
It's an entirely different experience model. This isn't a matter of "well adjust this formula" as much as it is walking into a deli and asking for a honda civic. Yes, theoretically you could turn a deli into a car dealership, but you might be better off going to a car dealership.
>>A 15 year-old can solve this issue of scripting, EXP, the years of grinding and work that makes the game less marketable to the masses out there.
Your solutions are typically "make critters harder no I don't want to hunt harder things I want the things I currently hunt to be harder" and "you know that experience system in gemstone give that to DR"
I could see the node system in gemstone getting implemented in DR, since that just ("just") means giving a room a pervasive experience boost. But you also propose that with the assumption that it will facilitate roleplay since everyone will be in a common area, forgetting that people have hung outside the crossing bank, northeast gate, warrior mage guild, etc for years on end as "scripting" hubs and only a minority of people there interact with each other.
>>Anyway, I'm actually beginning -beginning mind you- to get concerned. Still holding out hope for the new hires.
You've been giving this same speech for the last few years.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
It's an entirely different experience model. This isn't a matter of "well adjust this formula" as much as it is walking into a deli and asking for a honda civic. Yes, theoretically you could turn a deli into a car dealership, but you might be better off going to a car dealership.
>>A 15 year-old can solve this issue of scripting, EXP, the years of grinding and work that makes the game less marketable to the masses out there.
Your solutions are typically "make critters harder no I don't want to hunt harder things I want the things I currently hunt to be harder" and "you know that experience system in gemstone give that to DR"
I could see the node system in gemstone getting implemented in DR, since that just ("just") means giving a room a pervasive experience boost. But you also propose that with the assumption that it will facilitate roleplay since everyone will be in a common area, forgetting that people have hung outside the crossing bank, northeast gate, warrior mage guild, etc for years on end as "scripting" hubs and only a minority of people there interact with each other.
>>Anyway, I'm actually beginning -beginning mind you- to get concerned. Still holding out hope for the new hires.
You've been giving this same speech for the last few years.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
SUMMERSON
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 03:03 PM CST
You're cherry picking all my ideas. I've already stated clearly how to solve every problem here, easily. This is a MUD, we're not trying to land people on Mars. If you're worried about people scripting on nodes, then give GMs the tool for mass script checking a room WHERE THE NOUNS/KEYWORD REPLIES ARE CREATED ON THE SPOT (thus making it impossible to script through the check), for the people who succeed they get a small bonus to their EXP drain. This way people will be attentive and at their keyboards in order to grab that reward.
Anyway, nothing will change because I suspect right now the GMs are in a serious bind due to staffing issues. This is the REAL PROBLEM.
DR-JAVAC
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 03:07 PM CST
I'm not clear what the problem you're trying to fix is. Can you give me a concise list of what you actually want?
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/11/2017 05:08 PM CST
>The experience model you're discussing works well in other games because getting "better" at something is usually a flat function of skill points, which is a flat function of level, which is itself a flat function of a universal experience pool. Plant and gather 8 onions? Kill rats for the farmer? Disrupt a magic portal from opening? All in one generic experience pool.
With respect to a singular XP pool, youre describing Gemstone.
>I tried that, and in fact the Official Order I was trying to join to facilitate that is shutting it's doors pretty soon. It's not a good time if you aren't a bot.
Join a different one. Find someone who is actively working on RP storystuff, and get involved with them. This has zero to do with bots.
>In reality, it's the HLCs and always will be the HLCs that makes the game actually advance further. (and really it isn't the HLCs fault either, just the people who actually designed the game in the first place). Anyway, I'm actually beginning -beginning mind you- to get concerned. Still holding out hope for the new hires.
What? An enormous amount of dev is centered at pre 100th circle activities. In fact, most of the HLC dev is just 'new hunting zones with a critter with higher numbers'. The game is not designed well for beyond 100th circle.
>Anyway, nothing will change because I suspect right now the GMs are in a serious bind due to staffing issues. This is the REAL PROBLEM.
Well, sure, yes, but what does this have to do with you wanting a totally different training, combat, and end-game development paradigm?
SHADOW7988
Re: A message from your local Critter Union!
01/12/2017 08:33 AM CST
> >I tried that, and in fact the Official Order I was trying to join to facilitate that is shutting it's doors pretty soon. It's not a good time if you aren't a bot.
>Join a different one. Find someone who is actively working on RP storystuff, and get involved with them. This has zero to do with bots.
Also maybe post in the forums under that Order asking to help, offering to do stuff. Maybe you can be the turning point, or help other do the turning point so that that order doesn't shut it's doors.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
"Phelim, what have I wrought?"
GM NaOHHI
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 S.V.o.L.t.R
>Join a different one. Find someone who is actively working on RP storystuff, and get involved with them. This has zero to do with bots.
Also maybe post in the forums under that Order asking to help, offering to do stuff. Maybe you can be the turning point, or help other do the turning point so that that order doesn't shut it's doors.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
"Phelim, what have I wrought?"
GM NaOHHI
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 S.V.o.L.t.R
