Soooo much better, one of the things I was most excited for regarding 3.0, thanks.

- Buuwl

In plat it's locking in like 3 shots. Think there might need to be some tweaking.

>>In plat it's locking in like 3 shots. Think there might need to be some tweaking.

The jig is up!

I've been backtraining it and my Crossbow was going from clear to locked in one shot in Snow Goblins, using my walnut arbalest banded with iron straps. I honestly assumed it was a combination of my Crossbow being 40-50 ranks below Snow Goblins(but hitting because of Missile Mastery), my Arbalest taking 18 seconds to load(ranged weapon exp are balanced around load times now, I believe I read Kodius post a couple days ago) and getting devastating and higher hits fully aimed causing a huge shot of exp. If it still does it while at-level then yeah, something is wrong.

I'm training it at level, and in Plat I am indeed locking in 2-3 shots. However a few things:

Weapons teritary

Only 59 ranks of Crossbow

I'm loading, full aiming, using brawl/tactics moves as filler, and shooting. 2-3 shots later I've gone from clear to mind locked. Now that could be as intended as I am seriously low in ranks, and I remember training Crossbows on characters with several hundred ranks and you could never lock it. So I'm sure around the 200-300 rank level there will be a noticeable difference in the number of shots to get locked.

~Player of Dorak

I don't know where the Arbalest comes from(got it in a Trader shop for 2 plat and it's not listed on Elanthipedia that I can find), but that's just what it's always been. I only just picked it up a couple days after 3.0 because I was looking into training my Crossbow skill since it's not as painful now and it has a decent Paladin look description. I thought it might be the shield when you said I should be getting a lower RT, so I tried it with the shield on the arm, shoulders, and not wearing it at all. It's being loaded from a soft snowbeast pelt thigh quiver clasped with a curved ivory tooth from the Chris Mass festival with plain old Crossing storebought bolts.

> skill cross

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Crossbow: 85 29.54% clear (0/34)

Time Development Points: 176 Favors: 15 Deaths: 7 Departs: 3
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

> get arb

You get a walnut arbalest banded with iron straps from inside your rucksack.
>
> load

You reach into your quiver to load the walnut arbalest with a crossbow bolt.
Roundtime 18 sec.
R> unload arb

You unload the arbalest.
Roundtime: 6 seconds.
R> stow bolt

You put your bolt in your pelt quiver.
> rem shield

You loosen the straps securing your tower shield and remove it.
> put arb in ruck

You put your arbalest in your rucksack.
> adjust shield
You adjust the straps of your shield, lengthening them so that it can be worn across your shoulder.
>
> wear shield

You sling a steel tower shield over your shoulder.
> get arb

You get a walnut arbalest banded with iron straps from inside your rucksack.
> load

You reach into your quiver to load the walnut arbalest with a crossbow bolt.
Roundtime 18 sec.
R> unload

You unload the arbalest.
Roundtime: 6 seconds.
R> stow bolt

You put your bolt in your pelt quiver.
> rem shield

You sling a steel tower shield off from over your shoulder, placing it in your left hand.
> drop shield

You drop a steel tower shield.

> guard shield
You move into position to guard a steel tower shield.
> load

You reach into your quiver to load the walnut arbalest with a crossbow bolt.
Roundtime 18 sec.
R>

Yeah I guess the model we GMs have for an arbalest isn't quite as bad. I think all-around they could use a RT reduction, but unfortunately it is sold ON the item, making a global-change impossible.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Arbalests are indeed sold in Theren, but I thought the RT was more like 21 seconds. I'll see about getting up that way today because I wanted to pick one up anyways.

~Player of Dorak

>It would be nice if these plus-size weapons (like staff sling and arbelasts) could fire into adject rooms or off of battlements. It is a seige arbelest after all.

I'm overall for different advantages/disadvantages for each weapon category (I see categories of weapons being things like arbelast, hx, lx, le, me, not the whole skill that governs their use).

Though Historically Longbows were volley/long range weapons, to me staff slings should have some type of parry bonus, and arbelests should be something like anti-tank/big game hunters. Just suggestions, not sure how that would work mechanically.

---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

>>I find a regular HX is more accurate though, it's an aweful long time to wait just to miss.

I'm not using it to actually hunt. Just to train. It's impossible to beat this when you're just trying to train. Although I plan on replacing my Arbalest with the Prison Riot: Aftermath heavy repeater from scrips if I can get a hold of enough, whether it still trains like that or not. I also imagine using it on mobs so far above my actual ranks because of Missile Mastery and backtraining is giving me more exp than it should(assuming, of course, mobs with defenses so much higher than your offense gives a bonus to exp, like defenses lower than your offenses gives a penalty), since people hunting at level aren't having that kind of exp gains.

And Kodius, if you're still monitoring this thread, is this kosher or would it be considered bug abuse? I know nothing about the inner workings of the system and what is supposed to happen and what isn't - especially since 3.0 came out just as I was relearning the old systems from an absence - and from what I gather from your previous response the long load times are messing up the exp formula and I would rather take five minutes to lock my Crossbow with a regular crossbow than get pulled aside by a GM and accused of abusing a bug.

R> aim
You begin to target a mutant togball.
>
> skill cross

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Crossbow: 86 11.19% clear (0/34)

Time Development Points: 186 Favors: 15 Deaths: 7 Departs: 3
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

>
* Moving well, a mutant togball slices wide at you. You barely fail to block with tower shield.
The fist lands a light hit (1/22) to your chest.
[You're bruised, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
>
* A mutant togball swings at you. You barely block with a steel tower shield.
[You're bruised, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
>
* Moving poorly, a mutant togball swings at you. You barely block with a steel tower shield.
[You're bruised, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
>
You think you have your best shot possible now.
>
* A mutant togball bites at you. You barely block with a steel tower shield.
[You're bruised, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
> fire

< Attacking forcefully, you fire a crossbow bolt at a mutant togball. A mutant togball attempts to evade.
The bolt lands a very heavy hit (8/22) that pokes it in a slash from behind.

The crossbow bolt lodges itself shallowly into the mutant togball!
[You're bruised, solidly balanced with no advantage.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
>
> skill cross

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Crossbow: 86 11.19% rapt (30/34)

Time Development Points: 186 Favors: 15 Deaths: 7 Departs: 3
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

i'm pretty sure load, aim time come into play when calculating crossbow experience now from what I've seen. I think some of this might be pretty excessive but I'm liking it in the backtrain sense. I hope if it gets toned down it doesn't get toned down to much.

<< My young bard adores locking his Crossbows. Very pleasant:)

The exp gain is nice and all but it seems to come with a price. The 3.0 has been out for a little while now, with all the tweaks and fixes starting to settle down but i don't know if it is just me who is noticing the lack of raw power in crossbows for what they once used to be known for? You may lock in 3 shots but it takes 8 shots to take down your enemy.

It probably takes words from a worthier combatant than me to say this but are crossbows even worth the trouble anymore? From the looks of it, it might be a better idea to just swing away using the heaviest blade you can find and get the job done much quicker.

>>Assuming you are just using one non-repeating crossbow, no, the dps will not match up to 2HE.

As it should be. You're bypassing parry and engagement distances when using a crossbow vs a 2HE. If they did the same damage there wouldn't be any point in using the sword. As it is now there's benefit in both weapons.

<<as it should be>>

I agree.

>>I have not yet experimented with any PVP combat myself and i don't even know exactly, can you still keep retreating away as much as you like? I kind of remember hearing something about tactics working against that vs athletics or something?

I'm not sure what happened with the plans for the new engagement system TBH, perhaps they're waiting until after a hangback rewrite.

> infinite retreating has been partially kiboshed through a stacking offensive penalty per retreat

I remember seeing this in Test, and it showed up when you assessed. I just tried, though, and I'm not seeing it. So either the penalty isn't working, or it's just not showing up in assess. Or maybe it's only when you retreat from PCs?

It may vary from creature to creature. I happen to be hunting something right now that dies far faster to my HX than to my HE.

I had thought I was going to give up on HX- and was planning on doing that unless the EXP model was fixed in 3.0- well glory be it is fixed- HX is working fine for me now- I can learn it- and it hits hard.

Now the only question is about damage and ammo. Are player made bolts the equivelant of player made arrows now?

> Still happening to me, how long did you wait before assessing?

No time at all.

>retr
ass

You retreat from combat.

You assess your combat situation...

You (solidly balanced) are facing an asaren celpeze (2) at missile range.
An asaren celpeze (1: very badly balanced) is flanking you at missile range.
An asaren celpeze (2: nimbly balanced) is facing you at missile range.

(You are also defending against an asaren celpeze.)

Turns out you only get a penalty for moving from melee to pole. You can move from pole to missile all day and be fine.