Something really does need to be done about the parry training slowness, I agree.

It's pretty much the entire reason I don't hunt in drakes (and I'd really like to hunt in there). Pretty much every time I go there it's just me and one other person hunting at the time, and I become "that guy," (the one who stands there with 4 swinging away at him for 20-25 minutes while the other guy has to make do with 2) which is an untenable situation for me, so I just go back to assassins instead.

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Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus

I find parry annoying to stance at 100 and train, I just split my defenses to around 90/20/80 evasion/parry/shield and let it tick away like that. Its slow going but it eventually locks for me after a few hours. Though my parry is pretty low compared to my other defenses. At least its an option if you don't want to just take the time out and dance with critters.

hmm... ok I just did a parry test at 98 evasion and 100 parry and locked in ~16 minutes. So maybe I am off my rocker?

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

>So maybe I am off my rocker?

For me the problem is DP Assassins, not parry.

As the only critter in the game at these ranks that also drops boxes, they are the only thing I want to hunt.

If I want to train parry, I absolutely have to wait for 4 to run out of bolts and come at me with melee, and then I cannot kill any or a new one will spawn and start shooting arrows through my parry. Now this probably wouldn't be a problem if I wasn't Armor tert, but I am, if I wasn't I'd already be in Intercessors/Cabalists full time.

Your OP mentioned you're in Assassins also, so maybe its this "set-up" and "no kill" period that you're really finding annoying.

Honestly since I'm really only doing it for TDPs, I think I'm done training parry. Just gonna spend the rest of my life watching my armor tert shield gains, since that's the only defense worth it.

So we've been trying to determine what options might exist for addressing the problems players are having while trying to train parry and hunting ranged enemies. It isn't an easy one.

In Combat 2.0 evasion was easily 2-3x better than Parry or Shield, so you really didn't need either of them to be an effective hunter. In some cases they even penalized you (such as in the case of using a large shield). Fixing this has caused another imbalance to rear its ugly head, but some options may exist to fix it... what are peoples' thoughts about this?


Option 1:

Dynamically re-assign Parry Stance to Shield/Evasion when attacked. So if you are stanced 100 parry/80 evasion, and someone lobs a fireball at you... 100 parry changes into +20 evasion stance, and +80 shield stance (or only +20 more evasion stance if you have no shield out).

Pros:

* Reduces the danger of training parry while hunting ranged enemies, if you use a shield
* Avoids having parry skill make you better at dodging or blocking
* This isn't too hard to code.
* Still allows people to stance down for RP/tourneys.

Cons:

* Might be confusing for players to understand. I'm stanced 100 parry, 0 shield/evasion, yet I can still dodge or shield block stuff.
* Parry isn't necessarily made better by this change. Just less likely to get you killed while training it.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

Definitely pro this.

> * Parry isn't necessarily made better by this change. Just less likely to get you killed while training it.

Parry's already better in the situations where it applies. It doesn't need to be made better; it just needs the drawbacks to be not as killer, which is what this does.

The details don't really matter to me, so it sounds like a great idea either way. Thumbs up from me.

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Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

Please do this!

> The alternatives would be to remove stances altogether, or implement ratios similar to magic stancing.

I'm okay with either of these, too. Sure there are the edge cases you mention, but just like plate isn't always the best choice of armor, sometimes carrying a big hunk of metal isn't the best choice for defense. As long as those situations aren't both common and severely penalizing, it should be fine.

> A goblin takes a swing at you, and the system decides to use 100% evasion and 80% parry. Oops, you never learn shield.

Ah, didn't consider learning. Yeah, sounds like current stance points plus dynamic reassignment in certain situations is the best option.

>> A goblin takes a swing at you, and the system decides to use 100% evasion and 80% parry. Oops, you never learn shield. If we try to make it so you learn shield, you suddenly lose a lot of defense - and you might not want that if doing PvP or hunting a boss. It means you'll have to juggle your shield a lot more than manipulate a stance verb.

If you make it toggle-able and let the players set each stance, I think that could work. It would just be a reactive version of what we already have. Completely optional if someone didn't want to use it, but flexible if they did.

On the topic of PARRY as a general defense, I like the 'devoting your energy to dodging' idea. People who didn't train Shield would suck less, and people who did would still have that advantage. Maybe you could even sell a feat or two for using a weapon to aid in that task.

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IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

>>current stance points plus dynamic reassignment in certain situations is the best option.

I agree with that.

As another, somewhat related thought, what ever came of the idea to have killing critters teach some blanket defensive experience, based on the stance settings of the character? I clearly remember Dartenien floating the idea at one point, and I've always thought it would have been a great cure for many of the problems with how combat training in DR has traditionally worked. I assume it got scrapped somewhere along the way, but I think it should be reconsidered.

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Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus

Throw me in the 'whatever it takes to make parry trainable vs. ranged critters without death.'

The dynamic stance as only applied to ranged and parry situations sounds good to me.

But what about the old stand by, just let players parry stuff at some penalty?

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Pants.

Sounds like a great idea.

I was trying to think of some weird situations where people always stance parry over shield, but I can't think of one. People will still need to stance to learn shield.

+1 (much better then the old idea of using parry ranks)

>>how did no one think of this idea before?

Kodius is the Tony Stark of code.

"But sir, it's just not possible with our current combat engine!"
"Kodius coded this with two bags of Cheetohs and a Halo 4 Mountain Dew! What do you mean it's not possible?!"
"B-b-but sir.... I'm not Kodius."

OK, I like it! But (and I usually have a but) how does this solve the problem of TRAINING parry? I understand it would help us not die to ranged attackers (a very good thing), but how does it help move the parry skill? Will I learn a bit of parry when the stances shift? Will I learn parry vs shield or evasion for this dynamic defense shift?

Is an OPTION 2, % chance (increasing with parry skill) to Parry all rangeattackerses thus learning parry for defending against the attack off the table? Maybe as a feat?

______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss

OK, I can see this. And maybe auto turn it off when you are in a challenge?

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Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss

>>Why would you want this? If you're trying to give yourself a handicap, just leave those stance points unassigned. The idea is that only points which have been actively assigned to a defense will reallocate themselves.

"Here were my options: A: Quickly duck sideways, dodge the claw and take out with a spinning back kick. B: Take the claw in the face, then roll on the ground and die. Hmm, should have gone with A.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrdtUDxiDn4

That's all I could think of when I read the quoted text.

Samsaren

I am seriously considering removing bonus points from stancing down. It is silly, and unbalancing.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

> I am seriously considering removing bonus points from stancing down. It is silly, and unbalancing.

>> Probably best to fix the bug that grants +20 stance points first?

I'm not purposefully being obtuse, I've posted it numerous times so I figure you have seen it by now.

There is an extra 20 points given. It should be a total of 200 + defense points. This is repeatable.

> stance set 3 100 100 0
Setting your Evasion stance to 3%, your Parry stance to 100%, your Shield stance to 100%, and your Attack stance to 0%. You have 20 stance points left.

> stance set 23 100 100 0
Setting your Evasion stance to 23%, your Parry stance to 100%, your Shield stance to 100%, and your Attack stance to 0%. You have 0 stance points left.