Has anyone noticed a significant decrease in defenses after a brawling move? Not so much as it unbalances you as just removes effective ranks.

I was backtraining in bloodvines and punched one of their little heads in. Picked two dozen boxes between, went back to maulers for more and couldn't stop a single one from getting light to solid hits on me.

Normally I can dance with three no lucky hits even. Left, checked my burden, got healed up went back and got beat up again, fast. I checked my stance (just to make sure I hadn't stanced down for some reason) and noticed that (because I train LT first) my last combat move was logged as "Kick" or maybe "elbow".

As SOON as I changed it to backstab I was fine again. Not a slow ramp back up to combat effectiveness. One second I'm getting destroyed, the next I'm dodging instead of 'barely blocking'

I don't know if it might be due to a weird sort of flex with maulers/stompers. Curious if anyone else is having this issue in other critters. I tested it again by just brawling with them...same issue. Circle/bob/weave doesn't seem to effect defenses but as soon as you try to hit one, beat up.

Reasons?

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People will find you just as tedious and boring to talk to at 1000 ranks as they did at 100.

Elbow has a noticeable defense penalty attached to it, as well.

<<There's no time limit to it?>>

At the moment and since the start of DR no there is no time limit. This will change in Combat 3.0

<<Does anyone know what the highest defense move is?>>

Dodge/Bob has the lowest defense penalty

Yamcer

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"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF

Sweep and lunge are notorious for their defensive penalties. Kick has a penalty but I find it manageable. Grapple's the worst of all, in my experience.

Grapple is horrible, It's possible grapple makes it so you are using one defense (evasion). So basically it's like a 40%+ penalty. I haven't tried in a long long long time because I know it's horrible, but can you block or parry while grappled?

Tackle is on the ground + grapple, because when you tackle you jump on the opponent and grapple them I believe so that would be grapple penalty plus a high balance penalty.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

Yea, Brawling is pretty much the most worthless combat skill IG. Nice for parlor tricks(choke, tackle lol), trains like absolute garbage(has quickly become my most painful combat skill to lock, Squanto has said the same thing), defense penalties for pretty much any damage manuever are insane, ridiculous and insane for PvE and PvP(maybe for picking on noobs?).

I stopped trying to lock it since it takes so freaking long - considering dropping it entirely.

For your viewing pleasure:

< You feint your hand claw at an adult desert armadillo. An adult desert armadillo partially blocks with its plated hide.
The claw lands a grazing (0/23) strike to the armadillo's left leg.
R> l
[Dunes of Despair, Sand Valley]
Everything seems to sink slightly into the loose sand collecting in this trough between the dunes. The dunes provide scarce shelter from the scouring desert wind as it whips through the valleys between the shifting mountains of sand.
You also see an adult desert armadillo, an elder desert armadillo, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid and a Wayerd pyramid.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south, southwest, up.
>
The Wayerd pyramid emits a low humming noise as the sun's rays shine down on it.
> l

* An adult desert armadillo growls lowly and swings at you. You dodge.
>
[Dunes of Despair, Sand Valley]
Everything seems to sink slightly into the loose sand collecting in this trough between the dunes. The dunes provide scarce shelter from the scouring desert wind as it whips through the valleys between the shifting mountains of sand.
You also see an adult desert armadillo, an elder desert armadillo, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid and a Wayerd pyramid.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south, southwest, up.
> stanc
You are currently using 70% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 100% of your weapon parry skill.
You are currently using 22% of your shield block skill.
You are attacking with 100% of your offensive skill.

Last Combat Maneuver: Feint + None
> stanc evas

You are now set to use your evasion stance:

Attack : 100%
Evade : 100%
Parry : 0%
Block : 92%

>
The Wayerd pyramid emits a low humming noise as the sun's rays shine down on it.
>
>
> l

* An elder desert armadillo growls lowly and swings at you. You dodge.
>
[Dunes of Despair, Sand Valley]
Everything seems to sink slightly into the loose sand collecting in this trough between the dunes. The dunes provide scarce shelter from the scouring desert wind as it whips through the valleys between the shifting mountains of sand.
You also see an adult desert armadillo, an elder desert armadillo, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid and a Wayerd pyramid.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south, southwest, up.

>
* An elder desert armadillo growls lowly and swings at you. You dodge.
dance wolv
>
An adult desert armadillo rears up and spews forth a blast of stringy white webbing at you!
You manage to leap aside as the glutinous strands soar past your side.
>
Your mind and body are focused on a Dance.
>
> l
[Dunes of Despair, Sand Valley]
Everything seems to sink slightly into the loose sand collecting in this trough between the dunes. The dunes provide scarce shelter from the scouring desert wind as it whips through the valleys between the shifting mountains of sand.
You also see an adult desert armadillo, an elder desert armadillo, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid and a Wayerd pyramid.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south, southwest, up.
>
>
>
You notice an elder desert armadillo as it stealthily closes to melee range on you.
You point at an elder desert armadillo, ruining its attempt to advance unnoticed.

> grapple

You grab hold of an adult desert armadillo in a tight grip. An adult desert armadillo grips you back.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R> l

* An elder desert armadillo slashes fiercely at you. You fail to dodge.
The sharp claws lands a strong hit (6/22) that severs your left hand and sends it flying through the air, lightly stunning you.

!SR>
[Dunes of Despair, Sand Valley]
Everything seems to sink slightly into the loose sand collecting in this trough between the dunes. The dunes provide scarce shelter from the scouring desert wind as it whips through the valleys between the shifting mountains of sand.
You also see an elder desert armadillo, an adult desert armadillo, an elder desert armadillo, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid and a Wayerd pyramid.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south, southwest, up.
!SR>
* An elder desert armadillo growls lowly and swings at you. You fail to dodge.
The sharp claws lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that rips the left leg from the hip socket, making a wet popping sound as you falter slightly.
!S> l
[Dunes of Despair, Sand Valley]
Everything seems to sink slightly into the loose sand collecting in this trough between the dunes. The dunes provide scarce shelter from the scouring desert wind as it whips through the valleys between the shifting mountains of sand.
You also see an elder desert armadillo, an adult desert armadillo, an elder desert armadillo, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid, a Wayerd pyramid and a Wayerd pyramid.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south, southwest, up.
!S>
!>
!>
!>
* An elder desert armadillo growls lowly and swings at you. You fail to evade.
The barbed tail lands an extremely heavy hit (9/22) that rips through muscle and organs, cutting the foe cleanly in half.
Your rapier falls to the ground.

Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your soul and you struggle to remain tied to this world.

A chill takes the seat of your soul as your remaining spiritual strength bleeds away steadily. However, you are comforted that you have curried the favor of your god, which will greatly improve the course of your resurrection or reincarnation.

Your body will decay beyond its ability to hold your soul in 216 minutes.
[You're very badly balanced]

DEAD>
The armadillo burrows into the ground for a short time, becoming nearly invisible.
DEAD>

...

Evasion: 1002 65.24% mind lock (34/34)

Under normal circumstances, at 100% evasion I can stand in front of elders and straight evade all day and night. But when grappled, even with Wolverine up I die in just a couple shots. Honestly, even Moonskin isn't as bad as grapple, defense-wise.

Case in point : Brawling sux(and yes, I purposely died just to bring you this information).

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IM: Dannyboy00001111

"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."

Grapple and its associated maneuvers are broken indeed, which sucks because neck-snapping is fun.

The non-damaging maneuvers need to be rebalanced, yes.

I can't speak for 1000+ ranks, but using standard damage maneuvers, currently brawling is an acceptable weapon class for me. The only weapons that really outpace it for me are the super-OP classes like 2HE and longbow. Just wish we could whirlwind with our fists.

Brawling is good against shield.

Madigan