This discussion is a cross-post from another thread in the Warrior Mage folder, but I am posting it here since I did not find the answers I was looking for (although it had some good, but brief, discussion.) The conversation thus far can be found here: http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Warrior%20Mages/Weapons,%20Armor,%20and%20Tactics%20-%20Warrior%20Mage%20Style/thread/1775606?get_newest=true


Here is the question:

I had a question regarding bows for warrior mages. I train bow on my warrior mage since it falls within SOI (meaning it can receive a 20% buff with a capped Tailwind), and have considered escalating my training on it to bring it more in line for PVP. However, since warrior mages are armor (thus, shield) tert, we receive a penalty when loading/firing bows with an arm worn small shield. So, the question here is..

Does anyone know if the Tailwind 20% bonus outweighs the penalty of shield/bow when compared to Crossbow, Sling, HT, and LT, that only receive a Tailwind 15% bonus (due to none of them being in SOI) but they do not receive a shield penalty?

If not, I find it a bit of a shame that our only ranged SOI suffers from a shield penalty - especially since shield is so crucial in the 3.0 combat environment. Would it be possible for crossbow or HT be added into SOI if that's the case?

> If not, I find it a bit of a shame that our only ranged SOI suffers from a shield penalty

Targeted magic is a ranged attack within your SOI.

Also, keep in mind the entire kit rather than specific abilities. Warrior mages have the capability to put out a lot of damage between cyclic TM + straight TM + ranged weapons + buffs. You can also delve into other guilds books (Rage of the Clans - get it) to further boost your offensive power. It makes sense that your defensive prowess wouldn't be as strong as an armor centric guild.

Having tested this with a worn medium shield as a barbarian here are my thoughts. Take them with a grain of salt.

My bow load time increased.
My aim time increased slightly (this may not be a penalty but more a random affect)
My damage over time did not change.

As for comparing to crossbow, sling, HT/LT I'd say it's all in the preference. If you are a stealthy finger waggler then using a bow from hiding is the way to go. If not, I'd say it depends on if you've trained a ton of bow skill compared to the other skills. If so, it's a no brainer go small shield + bow. If not, well then it's up to your play style.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

> I am aware. However, even with all that factored in, I still find it odd that our only ranged weapon that falls in our SOI is one we receive a penalty for on having an armworn shield.

That's a fair point. I wonder if the GMs would be open to removing the penalty when Aegis of Granite is active, or just giving Warrior Mages Bows + either slings or crossbows if that's too difficult (thematically or technically).

> I'm not talking about defenses here, I'm discussing the penalty that you get when firing a bow with an armworn shield.

I'm still trying to catch up to everything that is 3.0, but didn't the penalty also debuff your defenses?

Either way, You can give yourself a decent OF buff that (I believe) exceeds the penalty if you pick up a Rage of the Clans scroll. Does that solve your concern of using a bow? Yes, you could do even more damage if a crossbow was in your SOI, but you're talking about a difference of 50 ranks at 1000 base. If you're that concerned about the penalty then reroll a ranger for double load + snipe or a barbarian for that + prime learning rates + hiding in your secondary skillset.

I would prefer we just nix the penalty to stick bows with shield use. Or, at least, let it be removed with ranks in Shield/Bow. Also, let guilds other than Rangers and Barbarians have the load-from-hand bonus when using a quiver after so many ranks.

>>Paladins, as armor prime and weapons secondary, should get the bonus. Maybe traders as well to offset the trader weakeness and due to armor secondary.

Paladin's can avoid the shield penalty with bows if they wear a medium shield, but they don't get any other advantages/skill boosts to make it worth using a smaller shield just to use a bow. Traders aren't included even though they are Armor secondary. It would be nice if they were.

<<The RT reduction for loading from a quiver isn't even a skillset perk, though. It's stat based, and only available to Rangers and Barbarians.

Technically, it's weapon primary plus Rangers because they're good with bows. It's just hard to identify a weapon primary (or armor primary) ability because there's only one guild of that type, and vice versa. Other examples in a similar vein include Dual Load for the same reasons. Invisibility is survival prime plus Moon Mages because it clearly fits them. SLIP is a survival primary perk plus Bards because of legacy abilities. Stackable thrown RT reductions are weapon primary plus Thieves/Bards because it fits their style. There's probably a few more like these too.

Yeah, I meant skill reductions. Was typing on my phone.

<< I'm just not sure 'being able to use stick bows' should be part of that.

It's part of the whole 'weapon primary has access to every weapon perk' thing, not a thing on its own. Stick bows have a perk for load times from quivers, ergo weapon primary barbarians have it.

>is it a bow issue? seems to me its more of a shield issue. shield size being one of the few pieces of equipment determined by skillset.

I think it's a bit of both. Depends on how you look at it. The solution to the question in this thread is definitely shield based but it relates directly to BOW and SOI (both weapon and armor).

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0