Hey guys,
I'm training up a new Cleric, and i'm having a couple issues locking TM, for a few reasons. The main issue is that i'm actually running out of mana before I can lock the skill. I've tried a few different things, casting with more mana, less mana, harnessing extra mana, prepping higher/lower, snap casting, full aiming, etc, and I haven't come up with the ideal method yet to lock TM. I can train it and get the skill moving, but if I focus specifically on trying to lock TM, I run out of mana.
So, without getting asking for an in-depth analysis of my particular situation, I'd just like to throw out the question, if you lock TM in combat, what's your process? Also as a comparison i'd also be interested in hearing how close your TM skill is to a weapon skill you train in the same hunting ground.
CHRISTIANSONK1
ABSOLON
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 01:13 PM CDT
In general the best way to train is to cast at the lowest prep you can sustain. Usually I do minimum prep plus one, since then I don't have to worry about hitting undead magic resistance. Exceptions would be for tiered effects, such as TKS where extra mana results in more strikes. In cases like that I use the minimum mana to get the tier of effect I want. I'm not sure which, if any, cleric spells are tiered.
As for focus training, I never do that. I always just weave my casting into my weapon attacks. If you want to spam TM and are having mana issues, then I recommend switching to a spell with a lower minimum prep if not already doing so (e.g. horn or ff) and use the least amount of mana as possible, make sure you're in the best mana room available, and make full use of any mana or attunement boosters you have available. I.e. PoM and Meraud's Commune.
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As for focus training, I never do that. I always just weave my casting into my weapon attacks. If you want to spam TM and are having mana issues, then I recommend switching to a spell with a lower minimum prep if not already doing so (e.g. horn or ff) and use the least amount of mana as possible, make sure you're in the best mana room available, and make full use of any mana or attunement boosters you have available. I.e. PoM and Meraud's Commune.
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ABSOLON
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 01:20 PM CDT
<<Also as a comparison i'd also be interested in hearing how close your TM skill is to a weapon skill you train in the same hunting ground.
Oh, and my TM on magic primes is always at the upper end of the training range whereas my weapons are typically in the mid to low end of the range. I base moving to the next hunting area on my defence skills first mitigated by whether I can hit the new creature with weapons, so TM/Debil learning usually has moved to a crawl by then. I can usually still keep it moving enough to get them to ~5/34 by the time I move up so they never stop moving at least.
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Oh, and my TM on magic primes is always at the upper end of the training range whereas my weapons are typically in the mid to low end of the range. I base moving to the next hunting area on my defence skills first mitigated by whether I can hit the new creature with weapons, so TM/Debil learning usually has moved to a crawl by then. I can usually still keep it moving enough to get them to ~5/34 by the time I move up so they never stop moving at least.
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WILTONQU
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 01:24 PM CDT
My TM is within about 10 ranks of weapons. I really don't push it or it would be higher. To answer your question, one you get POM your mana problems will probably go away. also you might want to work on attunement skill if your low level. I can lock TM at 400+ pretty well with harm horde in basilisk without any issues with mana.
The feeble old swamp shaman
ASHAMAN1
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 01:59 PM CDT
>>I'd just like to throw out the question, if you lock TM in combat, what's your process? Also as a comparison i'd also be interested in hearing how close your TM skill is to a weapon skill you train in the same hunting ground.
This is something that gets better with time. Some spells work better for folks, myself I like First Shards @ 70 mana (Sorcery + TM) or Rebuke @100 mana. This is something that has become far more doable with more attunement and cambrinthing. Low rank casters I do similar to an earlier suggestion, prep low, full target (throw some tactics in there too, for funzies) and cast. For -MY- stuff I'm looking at a 250ish rank gap between my top weapon and TM, with TM lagging, but Weave, Shove, full target and high mana offsets the gap.
Keep at it, and happy hunting.
Samsaren
This is something that gets better with time. Some spells work better for folks, myself I like First Shards @ 70 mana (Sorcery + TM) or Rebuke @100 mana. This is something that has become far more doable with more attunement and cambrinthing. Low rank casters I do similar to an earlier suggestion, prep low, full target (throw some tactics in there too, for funzies) and cast. For -MY- stuff I'm looking at a 250ish rank gap between my top weapon and TM, with TM lagging, but Weave, Shove, full target and high mana offsets the gap.
Keep at it, and happy hunting.
Samsaren
CHRISTIANSONK1
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 05:46 PM CDT
>>myself I like First Shards @ 70 mana (Sorcery + TM) or Rebuke @100 mana.
Have you found that spending that much mana per cast allows you to lock TM appreciably faster than using less mana?
I ask because dropping 100 mana seems like it wouldn't be sustainable long enough to lock TM (maybe you just have that much Attunement), and that approach is the opposite of advice given earlier in this discussion. Just trying to make sense of it.
Have you found that spending that much mana per cast allows you to lock TM appreciably faster than using less mana?
I ask because dropping 100 mana seems like it wouldn't be sustainable long enough to lock TM (maybe you just have that much Attunement), and that approach is the opposite of advice given earlier in this discussion. Just trying to make sense of it.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 06:06 PM CDT
>>Have you found that spending that much mana per cast allows you to lock TM appreciably faster than using less mana?
Can't speak for everyone but I don't straight cast them. I tend to target X, harness Yx3, shove, cast.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Can't speak for everyone but I don't straight cast them. I tend to target X, harness Yx3, shove, cast.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ASHAMAN1
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 06:15 PM CDT
>>Have you found that spending that much mana per cast allows you to lock TM appreciably faster than using less mana?
Twofold answer, 1, I have to cast FS that high to get a decent return on Sorcery. 2, I learn better with higher mana casts because I'm using multi-strikes (getting extra shots for mana), and banking on a degree of luck to hit. I'm taking 800ish TM vs Ints (so a bit overhunting). If I EVER want a kill I pour mana in.
Additionally, I'm NEVER straight casting. Its far too punishing on attunement. Instead I target, charge cambrinth, weave, shove cast. Takes a while, but during my TM stuffs I'm getting defences, a weapon (parry), armors, tactics, Sorcery/Arcana/TM, so I'm not complaining.
Samsaren
Twofold answer, 1, I have to cast FS that high to get a decent return on Sorcery. 2, I learn better with higher mana casts because I'm using multi-strikes (getting extra shots for mana), and banking on a degree of luck to hit. I'm taking 800ish TM vs Ints (so a bit overhunting). If I EVER want a kill I pour mana in.
Additionally, I'm NEVER straight casting. Its far too punishing on attunement. Instead I target, charge cambrinth, weave, shove cast. Takes a while, but during my TM stuffs I'm getting defences, a weapon (parry), armors, tactics, Sorcery/Arcana/TM, so I'm not complaining.
Samsaren
TFPETPATH
Re: How do you train TM?
09/29/2015 09:11 PM CDT
My script is always casting the type of spell with the lowest learning rate. Between casts I am always swinging. I almost never lock TM, but it's always in the teens.
Unfortunately I don't think clerics get any cyclic TM spells. Those will improve your action economy a little bit. My WM just keeps a min prep fire rain or ring of spears going all the time. I don't think any cyclic TM spells are on scrolls either. You do get a cyclic aoe debuff, which in terms of overall action economy is equivalent. You won't have to spend prep time working debilitation.
For me it goes: target, swing a few times, and then (harness, harness) or (charge camb, charge camb) then cast, depending if attunement or arcana is at a lower learning rate.
Unfortunately I don't think clerics get any cyclic TM spells. Those will improve your action economy a little bit. My WM just keeps a min prep fire rain or ring of spears going all the time. I don't think any cyclic TM spells are on scrolls either. You do get a cyclic aoe debuff, which in terms of overall action economy is equivalent. You won't have to spend prep time working debilitation.
For me it goes: target, swing a few times, and then (harness, harness) or (charge camb, charge camb) then cast, depending if attunement or arcana is at a lower learning rate.
BICKFORDS3
Re: How do you train TM?
09/30/2015 02:19 AM CDT
For starting clerics, two pieces of advice. Get "Fists of Faenella" as multiple hit spells tend to teach better than their counterparts and secondly, don't worry about "locking" TM. Worry about keeping it moving at all times, with a burst when you are getting ready to stop hunting. You will struggle with mana conservation vs learning rates at the lower circles.
Prydaen prayer for the hunt:
http://pastebin.com/fRrP52H7
Prydaen prayer for the hunt:
http://pastebin.com/fRrP52H7
