So I just now went to test with a partner. Its odd that all the spells that were reduced put the discern at the correct amount of reduced mana. The spells still operate at the same mana though. I went into test and pvp'd and when I tried to hit somebody at the max discerned cast it didn't work, I then tried to hit at the current cap in prime, which is closer to 100 and blasted the person. So apparently the spells in test still recognize the higher preps. I have tested pretty much every spell and they are all going up to prime caps and hitting as such. The caps that show on discern won't even touch the other person, as if i'm still casting on them with 50% efficienty with debils and TM, which would be the case.
SHADOWCHIEF2
DR-RAESH
Re: Magic in test
04/12/2016 11:50 PM CDT
>>So I just now went to test with a partner. Its odd that all the spells that were reduced put the discern at the correct amount of reduced mana. The spells still operate at the same mana though. I went into test and pvp'd and when I tried to hit somebody at the max discerned cast it didn't work, I then tried to hit at the current cap in prime, which is closer to 100 and blasted the person. So apparently the spells in test still recognize the higher preps. I have tested pretty much every spell and they are all going up to prime caps and hitting as such. The caps that show on discern won't even touch the other person, as if i'm still casting on them with 50% efficienty with debils and TM, which would be the case.
This is not how the magic system works.
At no point in the resolution of the spell does it care about the absolute amount of mana you used. It just cares about where you are in the range from min to max. Discern should be following along properly, but I'm not familiar enough with the discern code to say with absolute certainty that it is.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
This is not how the magic system works.
At no point in the resolution of the spell does it care about the absolute amount of mana you used. It just cares about where you are in the range from min to max. Discern should be following along properly, but I'm not familiar enough with the discern code to say with absolute certainty that it is.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
GABRIEL4
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 12:13 AM CDT
I think what they're saying, using a hypothetical spell as an example, is that the spell's new mana range should be from say 5 to 50 and discern is indicating this, but in practice the mana range is actually still using the old 10 to 100 mana range or something similar. I.e. they are casting at 50 mana more than the discerned mana cap of 50.
The other stuff about hitting their target at different mana levels is obfuscating that part of their observation, and was just there to indicate that putting 100 mana into it was actually different in effect than putting 50 mana into it despite discern telling them that 50 was the actual spell cap.
The other stuff about hitting their target at different mana levels is obfuscating that part of their observation, and was just there to indicate that putting 100 mana into it was actually different in effect than putting 50 mana into it despite discern telling them that 50 was the actual spell cap.
ILLIENA
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 12:19 AM CDT
"Capped debilitations are failing in Test, when the same capped debilitation in the same setup is succeeding in Prime" is something worth noting, though. It would be good to see if others can reproduce it. I haven't seen anything in the changes that would indicate that this is intended.
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 03:16 AM CDT
Yes I was stating that in test I used DISCERN which showed I could cast various debilitating and TM spells at 50 mana max. I then tried casting those spells at 50 mana and it did not work on an at level opponent. Then I cast those same spells, which were SLEEP, BURN, DAZZLE, MB, among other spells, but I instead prepared them at their usual cap in DR PRIME (This is in DR Test) and they worked, and not only worked but were the only way I could cast on another player to the effect that was desired, and would happen normally. Those spells being prepared at around 100 mana level, or maybe less for MB.
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 03:25 AM CDT
I'm sorry if I was being vague before, I was kind of tipsy. But basically if you have the range of TM and Debilitation spells set 50% less than they were before, which by the discern status they are, than they aren't working correctly.
They are currently taking casts at 100 (PRIME) mana levels, and with multiple tests at the DISCERNED levels weren't doing anything. When I cast them at the levels from DR PRIME which is around the 100 mark, they worked fine. I tested sleep multiple times at 50 mana (which my DISCERN showed me was max) and it just got shut down. I cast at 80 mana and it was fine, and that would be normal for the person I was casting on.
They are currently taking casts at 100 (PRIME) mana levels, and with multiple tests at the DISCERNED levels weren't doing anything. When I cast them at the levels from DR PRIME which is around the 100 mark, they worked fine. I tested sleep multiple times at 50 mana (which my DISCERN showed me was max) and it just got shut down. I cast at 80 mana and it was fine, and that would be normal for the person I was casting on.
ILLIENA
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 03:25 AM CDT
> Yes I was stating that in test I used DISCERN which showed I could cast various debilitating and TM spells at 50 mana max. I then tried casting those spells at 50 mana and it did not work on an at level opponent. Then I cast those same spells, which were SLEEP, BURN, DAZZLE, MB, among other spells, but I instead prepared them at their usual cap in DR PRIME (This is in DR Test) and they worked
That's not what I'm seeing. In TEST:
>discern mb
(snip)
It requires a minimum of twenty mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of sixty-six mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep mb 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Mental Blast spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You are preparing the Mental Blast spell at sixty-six mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>discern sleep
(snip)
It requires a minimum of one mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of thirty-three mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep sleep 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Sleep spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You are preparing the Sleep spell at thirty-three mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>discern burn
(snip)
It requires a minimum of seven mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of fifty mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep burn 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Burn spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You have fully prepared the Burn spell at fifty mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>discern dazzle
(snip)
It requires a minimum of one mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of thirty-three mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep dazzle 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Dazzle spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You are preparing the Dazzle spell at thirty-three mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
That's not what I'm seeing. In TEST:
>discern mb
(snip)
It requires a minimum of twenty mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of sixty-six mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep mb 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Mental Blast spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You are preparing the Mental Blast spell at sixty-six mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>discern sleep
(snip)
It requires a minimum of one mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of thirty-three mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep sleep 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Sleep spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You are preparing the Sleep spell at thirty-three mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>discern burn
(snip)
It requires a minimum of seven mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of fifty mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep burn 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Burn spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You have fully prepared the Burn spell at fifty mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>discern dazzle
(snip)
It requires a minimum of one mana streams, and can expand to a maximum of thirty-three mana streams woven into it.
(snip)
>prep dazzle 100
Since you're attempting to feed more power into the spell pattern than it is capable of utilizing, you quickly work your way down to its maximal potential.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
Smiling slyly, you murmur the words of the Dazzle spell.
>pow
The influence of the three moons is in balance.
Moonlight Manipulation and Perception spells are favored.
You sense that it's night.
You are preparing the Dazzle spell at thirty-three mana.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
DR-RAESH
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 12:21 PM CDT
Silly question, but are you sure all else is equal? Test hasn't had a recent character sync. It's very possible you've got a significant gap in your stats and/or skills.
Because I don't have any other reports of the behavior and knowing how that code works your explication is exceeding unlikely.
Anyone else seeing this?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Because I don't have any other reports of the behavior and knowing how that code works your explication is exceeding unlikely.
Anyone else seeing this?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
SLHUBBARD
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 12:22 PM CDT
I have been having a hard time casting Debil spells at my personal caps, have been having to go down 5-6 mana (which is about 10%) in order to pull them off.
Do the stat contests affect that at all? (I'm assuming not). Maybe if you crush the SvS check, you can get a bonus to casting?
GENT
Do the stat contests affect that at all? (I'm assuming not). Maybe if you crush the SvS check, you can get a bonus to casting?
GENT
GABRIEL4
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 12:26 PM CDT
The gap would be the other way if anything, and he shouldn't be able to cast 30 mana more than the discern's max spell cap (not the personal cap) even then.
That said, I'm going to chalk this up to drunkenness unless he can produce a log.
That said, I'm going to chalk this up to drunkenness unless he can produce a log.
SLHUBBARD
Re: Magic in test
04/13/2016 01:00 PM CDT
I can try and produce some quantitative data later on (probably more like this weekend) if you need some.
What types of data/tests would be helpful for you to determine if anything is going on?
GENT
What types of data/tests would be helpful for you to determine if anything is going on?
GENT
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Magic in test
04/14/2016 03:10 PM CDT
I had never taken logs. I did however extensively cast sleep and other TM / debilitation spells at various mana from 50-100. I never recall seeing that line that stated it was trying to be cast to high when I was casting at 50-100 mana. I even tried casting at least 5 times in a row, sleep at 50 mana which got resisted every time. I have no problem sleeping the person I was testing with at even 3/5 of max prep. I did cast sleep after that at 100, and it worked no problem, and even at 70 mana and it worked no problem. The same was true with various TM spells.
That being said I was a bit drunk, but that usually doesn't effect my gameplay. Something was definitely weird, but since I have no logs and I did go back in test later yesterday and it was indeed giving me the messaging of preparing to high at anything over 50, maybe i'm just crazy.
To answer Raesh's question about my test copy. My character is pretty much current with the prime version give or take 2 circles.
That being said I was a bit drunk, but that usually doesn't effect my gameplay. Something was definitely weird, but since I have no logs and I did go back in test later yesterday and it was indeed giving me the messaging of preparing to high at anything over 50, maybe i'm just crazy.
To answer Raesh's question about my test copy. My character is pretty much current with the prime version give or take 2 circles.
