And here I thought team magic was of the opinion that concentration wasn't penalizing people enough. I guess I misunderstood.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

<<And here I thought team magic was of the opinion that concentration wasn't penalizing people enough. I guess I misunderstood.

What they said was that concentration, and therefore penalties from it, probably doesn't affect as many things as it probably should. I.e. it's under used not under-penalizing.

<<Concentration penalized the heck out of casting.

This. Casting a ritual spell pretty much prevented casting further spells for several minutes because of the concentration drain.

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I guess I don't understand. As a guild that requires constant monitoring of concentration, I work those stats much harder to have better concentration. And by default, I monitor my concentration... Unless it was simply that far out of whack, (which no one but a gm can see the calcs...and answer) it seems like a "gimmie" for team magic. I was just looking for clarification.

To clarify my own stance, I guess I'd feel different if someone put loads of time and effort into making sure concentration was up there and still posted complaining. What I see a lot of (like chars on drsales) is people not having enough concentration because they choose to train other things. I understand concentration isn't nearly as important for anyone other than thieves, but what is "enough" or "too much". I'd wager that few MU's bother to work conc as hard as thieves, but theres a reprieve in place. VERY few guilds require the effort to balance stats. Most get by plenty by skewing one or two. I've always just viewed that as the cost of doing business.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

Not arguing in the least, just trying to understand better.

I mean... If I can't concentrate, why should I be able to cast a spell? If I can't concentrate I can't use khri at all, this seems normal. Can MU's now cast with no conc? Or do they cast penalized with no conc? I'm not able to be IG currently to do any testing. So just curious.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

So then, would it be fair to request a concentration regen boost similar to when you run low on mana and are within the correct parameters? If under 20% or whatever it is... I don't remember, you regen x% faster?

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

>>So then, would it be fair to request a concentration regen boost similar to when you run low on mana and are within the correct parameters? If under 20% or whatever it is... I don't remember, you regen x% faster?

I honestly don't know enough about the guts of Khri and how they're balanced re: Concentration to comment usefully. I mean, the concept doesn't offend me but I'd defer heavily to Ricinus for it.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

The only time concentration really matters as a magic user is few and far between. Casting ritual spells is the most obvious and affects the most number of people (not Necromancers with their ironic ritual-less existence), but there's a few other outliers as well none of which have a real impact for various reasons. A couple examples:

Casting a spell at the absolute bleeding edge of your skill drops concentration by about 5 to 10%, but that's easily recovered from in the time it takes to prepare the next spell and once you start capping spells goes away since there's no bleeding edge of skill anymore.

Moon Mage enchanting has a task that uses concentration as a resource and usually drains it a large amount, but because it's done during enchanting you're already buffed up by the time you do it and don't need to cast further spells while enchanting so it doesn't have a practical impact.

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<<They can cast without concentration, at a very unfortunate penalty, but yes, they can get a spell off in that circumstance.

I just want to clarify this, in case Elec (or others) doesn't catch the intricacy of it. What used to be the case was that with low enough concentration you couldn't cast at all, not even a minimum prep spell, and even relatively small amounts of concentration loss required casting at much lower mana in order to succeed. What it is now is that casting is now possible with no concentration, and the previous lowered mana requirement scales better over all concentration values. You are still not going to be casting at the same strength as you would at full concentration. If attempting to cast at your usual full strength then you will still backfire hard. Low concentration means that your spell strengths will need to be reduced by a fair amount in order to get them off, and there's still no way to know what that amount would be without guesstimating, so backfiring is still a real possibility.

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Not arguing, but that seems pretty LOL to me. I mean. Khri are totally binary. And have worked that way since thief magic went live. Either you have the concentration to put them up or you don't. It's much more like mana in that regard. So forgive me if I don't see the problem. I mean, what's good for the goose isn't for the gander nawmean? It's just funny. I mean, everyone hates relic penalties, so awesome for getting rid of it.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

>> Heh, you mean like if they cause nerve damage, for example?

I mean like removing diminishing returns entirely if that became the case as well as potentially lengthening the minimum durations a significant amount.

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Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs

Just for example, with 100 int/wis/disc and 1100-1300 in relevant magics, casting MF at cap drops my concentration down to 61%.
Before these changes that would have locked me out of casting my spells for a few minutes unless I wanted to cast them well under cap, this change is very welcome indeed.

Howdy,

Is it possible to look at the recent changes for lower level characters?

I'm finding that one or two backfires is quickly resulting in a debilitating amount of nerve damage, which quickly makes hunting and/or spellcasting near impossible now.

I don't know if you can alter the formulas to account for low skill, but it would be very helpful.

Thanks,
GENT

I feel like casting one spell 1-2 mana over what DISCERN suggests and going from unharmed to minor twitching is a bit harsh? Once you've hit that, you pretty much have to go get healed. The skill ranges are so tight at the bottom end, that even just being fatigued 10-15% can cause a backfire.

Could we lower the requirements for Injured Casting to compensate for the increase in damage?

I'm all for making spellcasting less Easy Button, but I feel like it could be stepped back a little at low end.

Thanks,
GENT

The amounts of nerve damage didn't change at all.

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

I always felt that discern lies about how much you can stuff into a spell by about 5 mana, so if your adding above even that I imagine you backfire often and hard.

To add to that, there's also other factors like nerve damage, fatigue, concentration, and such which will further push the chance to backfire at discern mana levels higher, so even without the randomness of the skill checks it's a good idea to provide a reduced-mana buffer for those situations.

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