This is a bit vague, but with the release of the runestone-tattoo things which, as far as I can tell NMU types can't use, it would be nice if there was a useful magic item classification that only NMUs could use.
Something that confers benefit over and above concentration/khri or inner fire mechanics.
I love the changes Javac has been making, but I always feel left out when new toys are released and everyone gets something to play with.
Except...me...
BADGOPHER
SHIFT3
Re: NMU magic items
01/21/2018 02:25 PM CST
> This is a bit vague, but with the release of the runestone-tattoo things which, as far as I can tell NMU types can't use, it would be nice if there was a useful magic item classification that only NMUs could use.
You mean like the black cubes, chakral, or roar gear?
Personally I'd argue that that there should be some sort of device to provide fuel for the tattoos that NMUs could use. Allow NMUs to learn scrolls too, if they have the right magical feat. They channel the mana from the device, which restores slowly (but faster in rooms with high mana for that type, and slower if opposite rooms). Sorcery rules still apply. Maybe this damages the device in addition to them, but the device is craftable rather than purchasable.
BADGOPHER
Re: NMU magic items
01/21/2018 02:49 PM CST
>You mean like the black cubes, chakral, or roar gear?
You mean an item no one has seen since 3.0, and two items for a guild-specific skill which I deliberately said 'not that' to in my post? Sure. Doubly so since I'm playing a thief and I can totally use those barbarian items. I'll wait while you come up with thief versions.
>Personally I'd argue that that there should be some sort of device to provide fuel for the tattoos that NMUs could use. Allow NMUs to learn scrolls too, if they have the right magical feat.
The problem as I understand it from GM conversations in the past, is that in the code NMUs do not have a 'mana type' at all, which means interaction with magical devices simply doesn't work. And saying 'well just add a place holder' doesn't work because DR code is DR code.
So some thief versions of cool magic devices would be nice.
You mean an item no one has seen since 3.0, and two items for a guild-specific skill which I deliberately said 'not that' to in my post? Sure. Doubly so since I'm playing a thief and I can totally use those barbarian items. I'll wait while you come up with thief versions.
>Personally I'd argue that that there should be some sort of device to provide fuel for the tattoos that NMUs could use. Allow NMUs to learn scrolls too, if they have the right magical feat.
The problem as I understand it from GM conversations in the past, is that in the code NMUs do not have a 'mana type' at all, which means interaction with magical devices simply doesn't work. And saying 'well just add a place holder' doesn't work because DR code is DR code.
So some thief versions of cool magic devices would be nice.
SHIFT3
Re: NMU magic items
01/21/2018 03:41 PM CST
> You mean an item no one has seen since 3.0, and two items for a guild-specific skill which I deliberately said 'not that' to in my post? Sure. Doubly so since I'm playing a thief and I can totally use those barbarian items. I'll wait while you come up with thief versions.
Just so you know, I wasn't attacking or belittling you. I was really just trying to get a sense of what you were envisioning. Are you thinking actual magic wands that are only used by NMUs or are you imagining something closer to the buff/utility items they've had in the past.
While we're on the topic, what ever happened to fade weapons? Are those still a thing?
> The problem as I understand it from GM conversations in the past, is that in the code NMUs do not have a 'mana type' at all, which means interaction with magical devices simply doesn't work. And saying 'well just add a place holder' doesn't work because DR code is DR code.
They added a mana type to traders. I'm sure they could do something similar with NMUs if properly motivated, or just make this work for everyone. The device could be open to anyone as a power source, and maybe it uses concentration or spirit to fuel spells. That would prevent overuse from NMUs since all of their abilities require concentration. You could give thieves an ability to compensate for that penalty (like PoP but for concentration). And it would be a flat buff to barbarians since they don't really use the stat.
TEQUILASUNRISE
Re: NMU magic items
01/21/2018 04:00 PM CST
>You mean like the black cubes, chakral, or roar gear?
I wouldn't classify any of these as comparable to the new tattoos.
Chakral literally just lets Barbarians do the equivalent of <perceive> with lower roundtime. Black cubes and roar gear like roar helms are gear that interact with or boost a guild's abilities. Magic-using guilds also have tons of these sorts of items, like cambrinth, prayer mats and prayer badges, holy weapon icons, Luckstones and max quality divination tools, companion food preservers, Quest-level ritual foci, etc.
I don't necessarily think giving NMU guilds something like scrolls or runestones would be worthwhile given there are now a grand total of two NMU guilds, but they are missing large chunks of the functionality that are core to being a magic-using guild.
I wouldn't classify any of these as comparable to the new tattoos.
Chakral literally just lets Barbarians do the equivalent of <perceive> with lower roundtime. Black cubes and roar gear like roar helms are gear that interact with or boost a guild's abilities. Magic-using guilds also have tons of these sorts of items, like cambrinth, prayer mats and prayer badges, holy weapon icons, Luckstones and max quality divination tools, companion food preservers, Quest-level ritual foci, etc.
I don't necessarily think giving NMU guilds something like scrolls or runestones would be worthwhile given there are now a grand total of two NMU guilds, but they are missing large chunks of the functionality that are core to being a magic-using guild.
BADGOPHER
Re: NMU magic items
01/21/2018 04:19 PM CST
>While we're on the topic, what ever happened to fade weapons? Are those still a thing?
The fade/ambika weapons were OK for their time frame, but are pretty crap now. They weren't ever intended as anything but RP tools, and have been completely ignored either way. The idea (thug attack for using) was meh to me anyway.
>They added a mana type to traders. I'm sure they could do something similar with NMUs if properly motivated, or just make this work for everyone.
What I was getting at is that it's an issue deep inside the code. They'd have to move thieves onto true magic systems and assign a mana type. It would be equivalent to doing trader magic, but with the added bonus of lots of angry thieves because change is scary.
The fade/ambika weapons were OK for their time frame, but are pretty crap now. They weren't ever intended as anything but RP tools, and have been completely ignored either way. The idea (thug attack for using) was meh to me anyway.
>They added a mana type to traders. I'm sure they could do something similar with NMUs if properly motivated, or just make this work for everyone.
What I was getting at is that it's an issue deep inside the code. They'd have to move thieves onto true magic systems and assign a mana type. It would be equivalent to doing trader magic, but with the added bonus of lots of angry thieves because change is scary.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: NMU magic items
01/22/2018 01:55 AM CST
I like the idea of a magic item category that Barbarians and Thieves (and, I guess, commoners) can use safely but is either unworkable or dangerous to an attuned magic user. Probably a nightmare to develop short of a very hacky script but fun idea if its possible to implement!
Bonus points if it violently explodes in a magician's face.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them." -Raesh, on history
Bonus points if it violently explodes in a magician's face.
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them." -Raesh, on history
AERATHOR
Re: NMU magic items
02/05/2018 03:59 PM CST
Magic items that are for non magic users should exist but they shouldn't give them access to casting or using mana. They should give them buffs, fluff and maybe wards but it would be a bit much to expect them to be able to target or direct magic themselves in any meaningful way. Just my thought. Anyone can be a MU if that is what they want.
As I understand it barbarians and thieves already have strong super natural abilities that are just called something different. So there is no need to make anything other than items that pertain to their specialty. As in, items for thieves that produce super natural effects using focus/concentration and for barbarians that require inner fire. Also items that require high ranks of a trade skill to operate such as engineering or alchemy or specific guild skills like astrology or summoning make perfect sense. Everyone can have "magical items" they just are called different things.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
As I understand it barbarians and thieves already have strong super natural abilities that are just called something different. So there is no need to make anything other than items that pertain to their specialty. As in, items for thieves that produce super natural effects using focus/concentration and for barbarians that require inner fire. Also items that require high ranks of a trade skill to operate such as engineering or alchemy or specific guild skills like astrology or summoning make perfect sense. Everyone can have "magical items" they just are called different things.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
BADGOPHER
Re: NMU magic items
02/05/2018 04:37 PM CST
>Anyone can be a MU if that is what they want.
Everyone is a MU in DR right now. Thieves and Barbs use magic skills in roughly the same manner as magic users. They simply power the abilities with not-mana resources, and their abilities aren't tiered and costed the same.
No real benefit to being a 'NMU' class in DR, since you've got to train magic to use your buffs anyway. The days of stat-based cookies are long, long, gone man.
Everyone is a MU in DR right now. Thieves and Barbs use magic skills in roughly the same manner as magic users. They simply power the abilities with not-mana resources, and their abilities aren't tiered and costed the same.
No real benefit to being a 'NMU' class in DR, since you've got to train magic to use your buffs anyway. The days of stat-based cookies are long, long, gone man.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: NMU magic items
02/05/2018 05:16 PM CST
I mentioned this in the Barbarian folder, but it would be neat if the Barbarian version of "magic" tattoos were permanent versions of their warpaint. Similar to magical tattoos, their "tiers" could be basic/savage/berserker/plunderer.
For Thieves, it would be kinda awesome if they owned DR's version of cybernetics, or at least a specific iteration. Their concentration could justify how they're able to ignore the pain of the implementation, and their lack of magical aptitude prevents the enchantment from reacting too adversely to being embedded within their body. One example could be a miniature version of a "bottomless bag" embedded in their hand full of dirt, or smoke bombs, or whatever (similar to magic runes, you have to pick one, not all of them!).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
For Thieves, it would be kinda awesome if they owned DR's version of cybernetics, or at least a specific iteration. Their concentration could justify how they're able to ignore the pain of the implementation, and their lack of magical aptitude prevents the enchantment from reacting too adversely to being embedded within their body. One example could be a miniature version of a "bottomless bag" embedded in their hand full of dirt, or smoke bombs, or whatever (similar to magic runes, you have to pick one, not all of them!).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
