So...what level of sorcery is needed to invoke the simplest of runestones, such as Clear Vision? I'm at 20, which I realize isn't much, but CV is an intro spell for moon mages which I understand is supposed to be basic as a sorcery spell. I would think 20 sorcery along with 107 primary magic would be able to handle this, but I am hopelessly backfiring...
AZRYNN
ABSOLON
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 07:11 PM CDT
<<So...what level of sorcery is needed to invoke the simplest of runestones, such as Clear Vision? I'm at 20, which I realize isn't much, but CV is an intro spell for moon mages which I understand is supposed to be basic as a sorcery spell. I would think 20 sorcery along with 107 primary magic would be able to handle this, but I am hopelessly backfiring...
You can generally invoke them with little or no skill. As for actually casting the spell once it has been invoked, which is what I suspect you actually mean, that will be a while yet.
All runestones currently prepared the spell with 20 mana, and this cannot be adjusted. When enchanting goes live, I suspect this will allow for more varied prep values. What this means right now is that you need enough skill to be able to cast the spell with, in most cases, significantly more mana that minimum prep. Given that sorcerous casting tacks on an additional difficulty modifier just for being sorcerous, this means that you won't be able to cast a spell from a runestone until around 200 ranks in sorcery, give or take your skill in the appropriate skill of Augmentation, Utility, etc. Note that the primary magic skill has nothing to do with it, since Sorcery skill literally substitutes for it in the calculations.
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You can generally invoke them with little or no skill. As for actually casting the spell once it has been invoked, which is what I suspect you actually mean, that will be a while yet.
All runestones currently prepared the spell with 20 mana, and this cannot be adjusted. When enchanting goes live, I suspect this will allow for more varied prep values. What this means right now is that you need enough skill to be able to cast the spell with, in most cases, significantly more mana that minimum prep. Given that sorcerous casting tacks on an additional difficulty modifier just for being sorcerous, this means that you won't be able to cast a spell from a runestone until around 200 ranks in sorcery, give or take your skill in the appropriate skill of Augmentation, Utility, etc. Note that the primary magic skill has nothing to do with it, since Sorcery skill literally substitutes for it in the calculations.
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ILLIENA
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 07:12 PM CDT
If you're casting a sorcery spell, your primary magic is irrelevant. PM is only for the specific mana type that fits its name.
After invoking, try perceiving. I suspect you'll find that you're preparing the spell at considerably above minimum mana, because that's how the runestone is designed.
After invoking, try perceiving. I suspect you'll find that you're preparing the spell at considerably above minimum mana, because that's how the runestone is designed.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 07:16 PM CDT
Also, keep in mind that (unless it was tweaked already?), runestones don't contain the lowest possible preps for spells. They might be pre-set to prepare spells higher than you're capable of casting.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AZRYNN
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 07:37 PM CDT
Yeah, I really meant cast a spell from a runestone, not just invoking one, my bad. I also mixed up PM with Augmentation in this case, I knew there was another magic skill that was involved in the contest than JUST sorcery.
All that said, this seems TERRIBLY out of whack. 200 ranks of sorcery to cast clear vision from a runestone? Really? It is indeed 20 mana prepped and I can barely cast my guild spells at 20 mana currently, but I figured these things were geared toward lower level characters as they drop like candy...
All that said, this seems TERRIBLY out of whack. 200 ranks of sorcery to cast clear vision from a runestone? Really? It is indeed 20 mana prepped and I can barely cast my guild spells at 20 mana currently, but I figured these things were geared toward lower level characters as they drop like candy...
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 07:39 PM CDT
>>I figured these things were geared toward lower level characters as they drop like candy...
IIRC, they'll eventually be adjusted.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IIRC, they'll eventually be adjusted.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ABSOLON
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 07:44 PM CDT
<<I figured these things were geared toward lower level characters as they drop like candy...
Sort of, but not really. They are useful for novices to be able to focus on for training sorcery or arcana as well as for a way to possibly cast in-guild spells that they may not know, but the actual casting of the cross-mana spells is not meant to be for novices. This isn't a runestone specific thing, but rather a sorcery thing since sorcery itself has difficulty modifiers baked into it that would prevent a novice from casting it even if it were with minimum prep. I.e. it's sorcery that is not meant to be for novices, not runestones themselves.
Enchanting, when released, will alleviate this somewhat, since different types of runestones will be available. According to the latest information, there will be ones like the current ones with a fixed prep that is set by the crafter and this could conceivably be set to be minimum prep. Also, there will be more complex runestones which allow the user to set the prep themselves at the cost of fewer charges or uses. But either way, you'd still need at least a moderate amount of sorcery to be able to cast a cross-mana spell from a runestone.
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Sort of, but not really. They are useful for novices to be able to focus on for training sorcery or arcana as well as for a way to possibly cast in-guild spells that they may not know, but the actual casting of the cross-mana spells is not meant to be for novices. This isn't a runestone specific thing, but rather a sorcery thing since sorcery itself has difficulty modifiers baked into it that would prevent a novice from casting it even if it were with minimum prep. I.e. it's sorcery that is not meant to be for novices, not runestones themselves.
Enchanting, when released, will alleviate this somewhat, since different types of runestones will be available. According to the latest information, there will be ones like the current ones with a fixed prep that is set by the crafter and this could conceivably be set to be minimum prep. Also, there will be more complex runestones which allow the user to set the prep themselves at the cost of fewer charges or uses. But either way, you'd still need at least a moderate amount of sorcery to be able to cast a cross-mana spell from a runestone.
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AZRYNN
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 08:07 PM CDT
> I.e. it's sorcery that is not meant to be for novices, not runestones themselves.
Ok, playing devil's advocate here a bit...
If I found a CV scroll, assuming my Arcana is high enough to invoke it (83 currently), I could then cast the spell freely, without worrying about charges, at minimum prep and likely be successful? If that's the case, then isn't it a somewhat arbitrary design decision to set the prep from runestones so high as to gate novice characters from casting from them?
If the above is correct, then I have a hard time buying the sorcery casting "isn't for low-level characters" line. Now, if I'm expected to find a scroll (and the ones I have seen, pay several plat) and use my scroll slot in order to cast as opposed to using the limited charge, readily available runestones...then ok I guess.
Ok, playing devil's advocate here a bit...
If I found a CV scroll, assuming my Arcana is high enough to invoke it (83 currently), I could then cast the spell freely, without worrying about charges, at minimum prep and likely be successful? If that's the case, then isn't it a somewhat arbitrary design decision to set the prep from runestones so high as to gate novice characters from casting from them?
If the above is correct, then I have a hard time buying the sorcery casting "isn't for low-level characters" line. Now, if I'm expected to find a scroll (and the ones I have seen, pay several plat) and use my scroll slot in order to cast as opposed to using the limited charge, readily available runestones...then ok I guess.
AZRYNN
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 08:11 PM CDT
To go along with my lower point, it would also assume I had the magic theorist feat and the 50 arcana/100 scholarship for it.
ABSOLON
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 08:13 PM CDT
<<If I found a CV scroll, assuming my Arcana is high enough to invoke it (83 currently), I could then cast the spell freely, without worrying about charges, at minimum prep and likely be successful? If that's the case, then isn't it a somewhat arbitrary design decision to set the prep from runestones so high as to gate novice characters from casting from them?
You probably couldn't with only 20 ranks in sorcery. That's what I'm saying. Sorcerous casting has an additional difficulty modifier just for being cross mana. Using your example, CV normally requires 0 to 400 ranks to cast. Because you're casting it sorcerously, however, that goes up to something like 100-500 ranks to cast. (I don't know the actual number.) On top of that, your personal cap is limited to a certain amount by your Primary Magic or Sorcery skill, whichever applies. In the case of Primary Magic, this limit is almost invariably never reached since your skill in it is all but guaranteed to exceed the amount required due to the ease with which PM trains. For sorcery, however, that cap is almost always applied unless you are incredibly dedicated to training sorcery relative to your other magic skills. What this means is you're going to need quite a bit more than 20 ranks in sorcery to cast even an introductory cross-mana spell at minimum prep.
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You probably couldn't with only 20 ranks in sorcery. That's what I'm saying. Sorcerous casting has an additional difficulty modifier just for being cross mana. Using your example, CV normally requires 0 to 400 ranks to cast. Because you're casting it sorcerously, however, that goes up to something like 100-500 ranks to cast. (I don't know the actual number.) On top of that, your personal cap is limited to a certain amount by your Primary Magic or Sorcery skill, whichever applies. In the case of Primary Magic, this limit is almost invariably never reached since your skill in it is all but guaranteed to exceed the amount required due to the ease with which PM trains. For sorcery, however, that cap is almost always applied unless you are incredibly dedicated to training sorcery relative to your other magic skills. What this means is you're going to need quite a bit more than 20 ranks in sorcery to cast even an introductory cross-mana spell at minimum prep.
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ABSOLON
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 08:26 PM CDT
P.S. focusing on runestones should get you to ~60 ranks in sorcery quite easily, which will be more than enough to start casting cross-mana spells from memorized scrolls with. I.e. the novice progression via runestones is there, it's just not via casting the spell from the runestone.
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AZRYNN
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 08:28 PM CDT
Yeah...that's what I'm doing, was just hoping they would be actually....useful at the same time. Oh well :(
GOLDENOAK
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/30/2016 10:29 PM CDT
Is there a reason why they took away the ability to change the mana used in runes? Its one of those changes I never understood the reason for.
ABSOLON
Re: Invoking runestones?
08/31/2016 12:14 AM CDT
<<Is there a reason why they took away the ability to change the mana used in runes? Its one of those changes I never understood the reason for.
Runestones were changed as part of the big magical device rewrite in preparation for new enchanting which will have different types of runestones, simple and complex. The critter dropped ones were changed to be the simple variety which have a fixed value for their prep. I.e. they wrote a bunch of code hooks for enchanting when they did the magic device conversion, and old runestones simply didn't fit any more.
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Runestones were changed as part of the big magical device rewrite in preparation for new enchanting which will have different types of runestones, simple and complex. The critter dropped ones were changed to be the simple variety which have a fixed value for their prep. I.e. they wrote a bunch of code hooks for enchanting when they did the magic device conversion, and old runestones simply didn't fit any more.
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