I already brought this subject up a bit in response to the Feral gift put out recently. I don't mean to belabor the point or badger anyone, but I thought I'd give it one more try. Even if the answer is "we're still thinking about it" or "we don't want to answer," that would be nice to hear. Also for the record, I really don't care either way what the answer is, I just want to RP my character properly within the setting, and it seems like she'd know things like what the Temple preaches.
So, given the recent Feral gift, and also the new chart and the reveal of Anabasis magic, I was just hoping for some clarity on what what the average person (and average adventurer) knows and thinks about the various sorceries -- and sorcerous (cross-realm) casting.
What does the Temple preach about, and therefore what would the average god-loving citizen take in? Other than "Necromancy is Bad," of course. Does Harawep still hate sorcery and, if so, which types? Is it JUST Harawep or has the Temple as a whole taken up Her cause?
Are there some sorceries that, while not anathema to the Temple, are considered bad or evil by other organizations? E.g. maybe the Temple hates all Necromancy but doesn't care so much about other sorceries, meanwhile the Grovekeepers hate High Sorcery.
Are there some sorceries that aren't really hated by any organizations but are rather "just dangerous"? Perhaps Feral sorcery? What is the "danger" other than the various backlashes the sorcerer can suffer? These seem the same for the Feral items as for regular casting, so I'm also wondering what makes Feral sorcery "extra" dangerous.
Are there any rumors (or concrete knowledge) that sorcery and/or cross-realm casting slowly drives the sorcerer mad, or perhaps toward a sociopathic mindset? If so, which sorceries? This is something I'd heard before but could never find any source for it.
Or is it all meant to be a total muddle without the PCs really knowing very much?
It would be especially nice to hear something before the window to redeem the Feral gift is up, since it bonds and I'm trying to decide which character to put it on. :)
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
PRIMEQ
LHFERREE1
Re: Sorcery and the setting
07/15/2020 02:38 PM CDT
I want to second a request for some framework to better understand sorcery, of all sorts, and how it's viewed by most of the society, elite society, etc., for purposes of RP.
I think I most understand widespread views of Necromancy, as well as Guild-specific views of their own High Sorceries, but it leaves out a lot on things like Cross-Realm Casting and Low Sorcery.
Even if not illegal, is something like Cross-Realm Casting viewed like over-indulging in alcohol, where people are negatively judged and if their poor choices result in personal harm that's their own fault. Or is like jaywalking, everyone does it, no one cares.
It seems to me this also ties into some of the observations about Adventurers and death. If death is really the end for the vast majority of people in society, then the danger and backlash from Sorcery would seem to be very discouraging in its own form. But for Adventurers, with death not being the end, I guess we are a segment of society that's treated differently?
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists."
I think I most understand widespread views of Necromancy, as well as Guild-specific views of their own High Sorceries, but it leaves out a lot on things like Cross-Realm Casting and Low Sorcery.
Even if not illegal, is something like Cross-Realm Casting viewed like over-indulging in alcohol, where people are negatively judged and if their poor choices result in personal harm that's their own fault. Or is like jaywalking, everyone does it, no one cares.
It seems to me this also ties into some of the observations about Adventurers and death. If death is really the end for the vast majority of people in society, then the danger and backlash from Sorcery would seem to be very discouraging in its own form. But for Adventurers, with death not being the end, I guess we are a segment of society that's treated differently?
~~
Lupdels
"Bards are widely regarded as excellent storytellers, but terrible cosmologists."
ACIDICSNAIL
Re: Sorcery and the setting
07/15/2020 09:08 PM CDT
+1 to this request. I'd love to have a modern take on what the various guilds and governments of Kermoria each think about low and high sorcery. Does Ilithi care less than Therengia? Do Rangers care at all? Do Barbarians especially hate sorcery or is all magic the same to them?
Relatedly, are plans to disincentivize sorcery practice as the default choice still on the list? Either as drawbacks for using sorcery or boons for abstaining?
Relatedly, are plans to disincentivize sorcery practice as the default choice still on the list? Either as drawbacks for using sorcery or boons for abstaining?
HASTALUEGO
Re: Sorcery and the setting
07/15/2020 09:20 PM CDT
>>Relatedly, are plans to disincentivize sorcery practice as the default choice still on the list? Either as drawbacks for using sorcery or boons for abstaining?
Curious about this as well.
Curious about this as well.
SARAGOS
Re: Sorcery and the setting
07/16/2020 03:58 AM CDT
I'm also very curious about this. There are a few points in particular that I'd like clarification on. Obviously the citizenry at large has little idea of what's going on, and Sorcery is scary. It's been outlawed. So of course they're going to be worried about it. This, I understand. But what concerns might a seasoned mage reasonably have?
* What, if any, real danger lies in Low Sorcery, particularly cross-realm casting? Yes, it requires putting yourself in an irrational state of mind, and you could blow your limbs off. But are there any real metaphysical dangers that aren't just incredibly unlikely?
* What, if any, real danger lies in the High Sorceries that guilds have? Yes, there are some dangers with the various forms of corruption. And yes, the guild structures frown on this. But is there any REAL metaphysical risk in the spell patterns that are currently known, or does that lie more in the more mythic spells we can't learn? In other words is it more the case that Aethrolysis won't hurt anyone but me, but the Grovekeepers don't want me using it because I might stumble on my own into something that could really destroy the world like Blackfire? Or do they instead have legitimate concerns over that spell in particular?
* Are the scraps we had about how dangerous Feral Sorcery is overstated? Because the two big examples that we have seemed to have been remarkably stable. Or at least in Veralos' case, it seemed more likely to me that he was nuts because of the messing with time, not because the Sorcery had backfired on him in some way. In other words, is it the case that "if you're skilled enough, you'll be fine"?
* On an OOC basis, are decisions about balance being made with the assumption that players will be using Sorcery, and that the only real choice is whether they choose High Sorcery or not?
- Saragos
* What, if any, real danger lies in Low Sorcery, particularly cross-realm casting? Yes, it requires putting yourself in an irrational state of mind, and you could blow your limbs off. But are there any real metaphysical dangers that aren't just incredibly unlikely?
* What, if any, real danger lies in the High Sorceries that guilds have? Yes, there are some dangers with the various forms of corruption. And yes, the guild structures frown on this. But is there any REAL metaphysical risk in the spell patterns that are currently known, or does that lie more in the more mythic spells we can't learn? In other words is it more the case that Aethrolysis won't hurt anyone but me, but the Grovekeepers don't want me using it because I might stumble on my own into something that could really destroy the world like Blackfire? Or do they instead have legitimate concerns over that spell in particular?
* Are the scraps we had about how dangerous Feral Sorcery is overstated? Because the two big examples that we have seemed to have been remarkably stable. Or at least in Veralos' case, it seemed more likely to me that he was nuts because of the messing with time, not because the Sorcery had backfired on him in some way. In other words, is it the case that "if you're skilled enough, you'll be fine"?
* On an OOC basis, are decisions about balance being made with the assumption that players will be using Sorcery, and that the only real choice is whether they choose High Sorcery or not?
- Saragos
VITRUVIANGNOME
Re: Sorcery and the setting
08/18/2020 04:21 PM CDT
I think the greatest dangers of High Sorcery come from the mage themselves and their relationship to their supernatural confounds within a systematic planar framework. Our world, our subjective reality, and our Confounds respond to the bending and shaping of mana streams - which touch and flow through practically all states of matter. The working of magic is a product of our nervous system's particular affinity for attunement to the ebb and flow of mana. There is a genuine, supernatural relationship with our Confounds which more often than not appear to be extraplanar lifeforms that desire this symbiotic relationship. What they receive from it is unknown (as far as I know) but it's my theory that the health of these relationships is reflected in our psychological and neurobiological equilibrium. A mage who forces his mind into a frame of reference which exults in violence and deeply powerful emotions is going to ultimately negatively affect their relationships with their Confounds. It's a display of psychic empowerment which forces the mind into harmful patterns that inevitably ripple outward through our Confounds, our attunement to mana and ultimately the world that's touched by these acts of magic.
If you've ever researched a High Sorcery spell with the help of that psychedelic tea then you're given a glimpse of the egomania and narcissism which plague the Necromancers.
For Clerics, they're performing theurgy and holy rituals meant to show devotion to the Immortals and instead usurp the ritualistic acts for themselves and the entity they've given life. They're challenging the literal ontology of the Immortals truth which can do..who knows what? If divine myth is observed as planar, physical truth then the arcane methods of creating an entirely new entity with divine-like properties will stand as a denial to that truth.
For Warrior Mages, they're basically forcing a new state of magical matter into existence by bending blended mana spell patterns into a shape which the world rejects. They've made supernatural uranium that responds to alien substances. I can only guess at the effects done to the elemental planes by forcing them into unnatural states. Relationships exist only when there is an exchange of information being passed between multiple agencies or environments. A glowing, melting Warrior Mage might be infecting their domain with similar destabilization by introducing foreign mana and destructive usage of those spell patterns.
Ultimately, I think, we're seeing the re-configuration of Meraud as an embodying entity of magic. The sudden wide spread knowledge and utilization of High Sorcery challenges that divine anthropomorphizing of magic into a new shape. The Moon Mage events that culminated in Tiv's guildhall exploding also saw an attack by Dergati/Kerenappuchu on Firulf through his claim over an altar. This is also taking into consideration the various magical apocalypses from various devices that forced the streams of mana into new flows and the defeat of his Vorclaf-avatar by Lyras/Hunger and potentially the weakening of the Immortal's grasp over all magic as we perceive it.
High Sorcery threatens planar coherence and even challenges the stability of those Immortals with magical portfolios. Really, I'm surprised the Moon Mages haven't organized a Risk and Semiotic Management department to ease the terrifying, Chernobyl style leaking of alien matter from and to other planes.
If you've ever researched a High Sorcery spell with the help of that psychedelic tea then you're given a glimpse of the egomania and narcissism which plague the Necromancers.
For Clerics, they're performing theurgy and holy rituals meant to show devotion to the Immortals and instead usurp the ritualistic acts for themselves and the entity they've given life. They're challenging the literal ontology of the Immortals truth which can do..who knows what? If divine myth is observed as planar, physical truth then the arcane methods of creating an entirely new entity with divine-like properties will stand as a denial to that truth.
For Warrior Mages, they're basically forcing a new state of magical matter into existence by bending blended mana spell patterns into a shape which the world rejects. They've made supernatural uranium that responds to alien substances. I can only guess at the effects done to the elemental planes by forcing them into unnatural states. Relationships exist only when there is an exchange of information being passed between multiple agencies or environments. A glowing, melting Warrior Mage might be infecting their domain with similar destabilization by introducing foreign mana and destructive usage of those spell patterns.
Ultimately, I think, we're seeing the re-configuration of Meraud as an embodying entity of magic. The sudden wide spread knowledge and utilization of High Sorcery challenges that divine anthropomorphizing of magic into a new shape. The Moon Mage events that culminated in Tiv's guildhall exploding also saw an attack by Dergati/Kerenappuchu on Firulf through his claim over an altar. This is also taking into consideration the various magical apocalypses from various devices that forced the streams of mana into new flows and the defeat of his Vorclaf-avatar by Lyras/Hunger and potentially the weakening of the Immortal's grasp over all magic as we perceive it.
High Sorcery threatens planar coherence and even challenges the stability of those Immortals with magical portfolios. Really, I'm surprised the Moon Mages haven't organized a Risk and Semiotic Management department to ease the terrifying, Chernobyl style leaking of alien matter from and to other planes.
