Previous
>>Better to figure out the root cause of the disparity between players and creatures and eliminate that, for all the contests.
I like Ahmir's suggestion.
~Thilan
TELGER
TFPLAYERDR
Re: MB. . .
10/28/2005 01:16 PM CDT
<<But Ssra is bringing the damage model in line, which will allow the creatures' stamina to be brought in line, which will allow the SvS contest to be brought in line.>>
Care to provide the post where he said that stamina on critters would be reduced? I know he talked about the damage model for how creatures hit players being adjusted, but do not recall him ever saying anything about adjusting the damage that players did for anything but ranged weapons or anything about messing with creatures stamina.
Thx.
Care to provide the post where he said that stamina on critters would be reduced? I know he talked about the damage model for how creatures hit players being adjusted, but do not recall him ever saying anything about adjusting the damage that players did for anything but ranged weapons or anything about messing with creatures stamina.
Thx.
JARAAD
Re: MB. . .
10/28/2005 03:39 PM CDT
<<Care to provide the post where he said that stamina on critters would be reduced? I know he talked about the damage model for how creatures hit players being adjusted, but do not recall him ever saying anything about adjusting the damage that players did for anything but ranged weapons or anything about messing with creatures stamina.>>
I don't THINK Ssra said anything about that. It's really more of a cause-effect cascade.
SvS contests are biased toward the caster because the spells are designed to be used against creatures, and creatures have horrifically high stamina. Creatures have horrifically high stamina because the damage model is out of control, and if they had the same amount of stamina as a typical player then at very high circles every creature would die in a single hit.
Ssra is currently seperating the damage model from the to-hit model, so that finite limits can be placed on damage. While he has not said so, I believe the next logical step would be to bring creature stamina back in line with player stamina. And once that's done, SvS calculations would be brought back into line with the new creature stamina.
The overall effect would be... You maintain your SvS effectiveness versus creatures, but lose some versus players.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
"Is glas iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn."
-Distant hills look green.
I don't THINK Ssra said anything about that. It's really more of a cause-effect cascade.
SvS contests are biased toward the caster because the spells are designed to be used against creatures, and creatures have horrifically high stamina. Creatures have horrifically high stamina because the damage model is out of control, and if they had the same amount of stamina as a typical player then at very high circles every creature would die in a single hit.
Ssra is currently seperating the damage model from the to-hit model, so that finite limits can be placed on damage. While he has not said so, I believe the next logical step would be to bring creature stamina back in line with player stamina. And once that's done, SvS calculations would be brought back into line with the new creature stamina.
The overall effect would be... You maintain your SvS effectiveness versus creatures, but lose some versus players.
Marksman Ahmir Nam'al
"Is glas iad na cnoic i bhfad uainn."
-Distant hills look green.
JUASON
Re: MB. . .
10/28/2005 07:24 PM CDT
The changes Ssra has suggested really won't affect combat all that much you realize? Its not going to barely effect melee combat unless you're Circle 100+. So how this paves the way for adjusting creature stamina is beyond me. You'd be one hitting things left and right :/
What needs to happen is a separation of SAVE spells versus characters. Perhaps add a -25% modifier to effectivness or whatever is deemed reasonable. Current PvE combat is reasonably well balanced up to circle 70 or so. I'd hate to have it broken much like combat combos were with the last rewrite, ultimately resulting in HALF the players of DR quitting, AND the GM coding the system quitting.. and so on. It would be a lot simpler for Team Magic to adjust the spell save calculations, rather than rewriting every single creature template in existance. Cast IP versus critter = full effect. Casting IP versus player = 75% effect.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website!!
Quote of the moment >> "If you die in an elevator, be sure to push the Up button."
-- Sam Levenson
What needs to happen is a separation of SAVE spells versus characters. Perhaps add a -25% modifier to effectivness or whatever is deemed reasonable. Current PvE combat is reasonably well balanced up to circle 70 or so. I'd hate to have it broken much like combat combos were with the last rewrite, ultimately resulting in HALF the players of DR quitting, AND the GM coding the system quitting.. and so on. It would be a lot simpler for Team Magic to adjust the spell save calculations, rather than rewriting every single creature template in existance. Cast IP versus critter = full effect. Casting IP versus player = 75% effect.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website!!
Quote of the moment >> "If you die in an elevator, be sure to push the Up button."
-- Sam Levenson
BEVERAGEK
Re: MB. . .
12/06/2005 06:23 PM CST
>Mental Blast
I've learned one thing about mage spells. With any mage, one cast and it's over.
So I've made a new motto for any kind of magic user, "Kill'em before they have time to blink."
Call me baby-face Lei.
I've learned one thing about mage spells. With any mage, one cast and it's over.
So I've made a new motto for any kind of magic user, "Kill'em before they have time to blink."
Call me baby-face Lei.
EMMIERAGE
Re: MB. . .
02/22/2006 05:30 AM CST
You know... everybody screams about Mental Blast... it's unfair, some moon mage 30 circles below me put me to sleep. What about IP? That spell is just as bad if not worse than MB. I never bring MB into a 'friendly' spar until one of two things happens. One: I'm sparring a moon mage, and they prep mb. Two: I'm sparring a warmie, and they either prep IP and/or cast IP on me. MB is IMHO cheap, it's cheap when fighting critters, it's cheap in sparring friends.
~~
A tongue of purely black flame erupts from the rogue gate, lashing out at you! Your body is consumed in an eyeblink, leaving only a thin Elf-shaped shell of ash which quickly dissipates in the breeze.
~~
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=13853
~~
A tongue of purely black flame erupts from the rogue gate, lashing out at you! Your body is consumed in an eyeblink, leaving only a thin Elf-shaped shell of ash which quickly dissipates in the breeze.
~~
http://s1.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=13853
SPRCOW
Re: MB. . .
07/22/2006 07:39 AM CDT
MB isn't any cheaper than most stat contests. There are other abilities that stun, immobilize, knock out, knock down, or instantly kill using the same rules. MB gets a lot of flak because it's good and has been around a long time, but if it didn't do what it does, how many of us would even bother to learn it? Honestly, when it comes down to it, casting two spells at 10 or more mana is enough to kill most things I usually fight anyway. MB is a tool that allows a magic primary guild to expand the range of creatures they can interact to more appropriately reflect their abilities.
BEVERAGEK
Re: MB. . .
07/22/2006 08:30 AM CDT
...
An analogy.
Imagine Ice Patch at 10 mana caused a light stun on someone and they lost their footing. Also imagine, if a consecutive Ice Patch at 10 mana instantly made that same person break their neck, regardless of a skill check(to my knowledge). Now, that is a parallel to what Mental Blast does.
While other stat spells are unbalanced, this is the only spell to my knowledge that, if it barely succeeds, can achieve the maximum tier results of the spell regardless of further skill check after the initial cast.
The only thing to fear is fear itself--nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
http://myspace.com/fearmaestro
An analogy.
Imagine Ice Patch at 10 mana caused a light stun on someone and they lost their footing. Also imagine, if a consecutive Ice Patch at 10 mana instantly made that same person break their neck, regardless of a skill check(to my knowledge). Now, that is a parallel to what Mental Blast does.
While other stat spells are unbalanced, this is the only spell to my knowledge that, if it barely succeeds, can achieve the maximum tier results of the spell regardless of further skill check after the initial cast.
The only thing to fear is fear itself--nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
http://myspace.com/fearmaestro
SYLVERWIND
Re: MB. . .
07/22/2006 09:01 AM CDT
Your understanding of MB is flawed.
Someone being stunned (or MB'd one time) does not remove the skill/stat check for the second or even third or fourth MB. Being stunned makes it EASIER, but it is FAR from being a sure thing. I've used the spell enough in PvP to know what I'm talking about.
There are some people I can MB repeatedly (on the line of three or four times) without knocking them unconscious or even forcing them to drop what they're holding with a decent amount of mana being packed into each cast. By the time I do get these people to the higher levels of success (dropped items or unconsciousness) my attunement is pretty wasted. And if it takes me that much mana to hit them, woe to me if they're wearing armor or a shield because I probably can't get past that unconscious or not.
IP and Halt are much better and more effective spells in this regard (PvP). It's pretty easy IIRC to get someone immobile with these spells and that completely tanks defenses, far worse than unconsciousness ever can or will. Immobilization is not something MB can do, period. Hypnotize can... but that's a whole other can of worms. It takes overwhelming success to immobilize someone with Hypnotize, the effect is very short, and if you can do that to someone (even while they're stunned) then you probably aren't going to have any trouble hitting them in the first place.
Rev. Reene
"...What's happening to your tea is happening to everything everywhere. The sun and the stars. It'll take awhile but we're all going to end up at room temperature." - "Arcadia"
Someone being stunned (or MB'd one time) does not remove the skill/stat check for the second or even third or fourth MB. Being stunned makes it EASIER, but it is FAR from being a sure thing. I've used the spell enough in PvP to know what I'm talking about.
There are some people I can MB repeatedly (on the line of three or four times) without knocking them unconscious or even forcing them to drop what they're holding with a decent amount of mana being packed into each cast. By the time I do get these people to the higher levels of success (dropped items or unconsciousness) my attunement is pretty wasted. And if it takes me that much mana to hit them, woe to me if they're wearing armor or a shield because I probably can't get past that unconscious or not.
IP and Halt are much better and more effective spells in this regard (PvP). It's pretty easy IIRC to get someone immobile with these spells and that completely tanks defenses, far worse than unconsciousness ever can or will. Immobilization is not something MB can do, period. Hypnotize can... but that's a whole other can of worms. It takes overwhelming success to immobilize someone with Hypnotize, the effect is very short, and if you can do that to someone (even while they're stunned) then you probably aren't going to have any trouble hitting them in the first place.
Rev. Reene
"...What's happening to your tea is happening to everything everywhere. The sun and the stars. It'll take awhile but we're all going to end up at room temperature." - "Arcadia"
BEVERAGEK
Re: MB. . .
07/22/2006 10:17 AM CDT
>>Being stunned makes it EASIER, but it is FAR from being a sure thing.
Ahh, my mistake then.
The only thing to fear is fear itself--nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
http://myspace.com/fearmaestro
Ahh, my mistake then.
The only thing to fear is fear itself--nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
http://myspace.com/fearmaestro
SPRCOW
Re: MB. . .
07/22/2006 12:43 PM CDT
Also, if you MB someone once to stun them, then IP them, your results will likely be very favorable. Heck, thunderclap them, then IP them I guess lol.
TOOLX2
Re: MB. . .
07/23/2006 07:43 PM CDT
>>Someone being stunned (or MB'd one time) does not remove the skill/stat check for the second or even third or fourth MB
A second cast however is esier as the target typicaly has massive nerve damage. This same nerve damage prevents the target from casting back and nerf's defense(much the same way CL did) as well as offense attacks. If you wanted to recreate all the effects of MB you'd need to cast TINGLE, PS, HULP, and MALEADICTION.
Even then MB is esier to cast and the nerve damage must be healed and wont fade like the other combined spell effects. What other compares to MB's value? Since its esier for a MM to favor mentals then other guilds its always a stacked deck. The only thing MB can't seem to do is kill this sick horse...
MB is overpowered.
Halfling,
http://home.comcast.net/~toolshed47/
A second cast however is esier as the target typicaly has massive nerve damage. This same nerve damage prevents the target from casting back and nerf's defense(much the same way CL did) as well as offense attacks. If you wanted to recreate all the effects of MB you'd need to cast TINGLE, PS, HULP, and MALEADICTION.
Even then MB is esier to cast and the nerve damage must be healed and wont fade like the other combined spell effects. What other compares to MB's value? Since its esier for a MM to favor mentals then other guilds its always a stacked deck. The only thing MB can't seem to do is kill this sick horse...
MB is overpowered.
Halfling,
http://home.comcast.net/~toolshed47/
JUASON
Re: MB. . .
07/23/2006 09:24 PM CDT
Heh, I love how people say Save spells are overpowered....
MB (and the other save spells) are 100% overpowered for PvP. In PvP you need to kill only the person you are fighting to "win". In PvE you need to kill literally dozens of critters in a timely, mana efficient manner. So yeah, like I've been saying all along - keep rooting for the nerfing of Save spells, and soon you'll find DR got a whole lot harder for anyone using any special abilities in normal everyday combat. You know like roars, spells, bows...
Special abilities will become relegated to that little thing called "backtraining". :sigh:
Why use any save spell with at-circle hunting if they don't contain some extra benefit over just nuking it one more time?
Here is an example of a similar situation -
I used to hate the old Pokemon gameboy games when they first came out because of one major design flaw. You see, each critter had a few attacks, and a few special attacks. The special attacks were things like -offense or -defense, etc.
Sad to say NONE of the special attacks were any good, because attacking was always better in the long run. What good is 15 more damage to the rest of my attacks, when I could have just attacked and done 100 more anyways? Battles never lasted more than 5-6 attacks, so the majority of debuffs ever so rarely made sense to use. Mathematically special attacks were inferior, and so you learned to never use them. I would hate to see save spells become like this. Each guild has enough useless spells as it is ;P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
MB (and the other save spells) are 100% overpowered for PvP. In PvP you need to kill only the person you are fighting to "win". In PvE you need to kill literally dozens of critters in a timely, mana efficient manner. So yeah, like I've been saying all along - keep rooting for the nerfing of Save spells, and soon you'll find DR got a whole lot harder for anyone using any special abilities in normal everyday combat. You know like roars, spells, bows...
Special abilities will become relegated to that little thing called "backtraining". :sigh:
Why use any save spell with at-circle hunting if they don't contain some extra benefit over just nuking it one more time?
Here is an example of a similar situation -
I used to hate the old Pokemon gameboy games when they first came out because of one major design flaw. You see, each critter had a few attacks, and a few special attacks. The special attacks were things like -offense or -defense, etc.
Sad to say NONE of the special attacks were any good, because attacking was always better in the long run. What good is 15 more damage to the rest of my attacks, when I could have just attacked and done 100 more anyways? Battles never lasted more than 5-6 attacks, so the majority of debuffs ever so rarely made sense to use. Mathematically special attacks were inferior, and so you learned to never use them. I would hate to see save spells become like this. Each guild has enough useless spells as it is ;P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
SYLVERWIND
Re: MB. . .
07/24/2006 01:32 AM CDT
A stun helps a lot more than the nerve damage. The nerve damage caps at "severe twitching" anyway. I can name a number of other spells that can take you right into paralysis, which will screw with your defenses rather badly. Severe twitching not so much.
Come to that, I don't think I've noticed just nerve damage having much of an impact on the success of MB.
I'll have to test it some time... but it's definitely mostly the stun that helps success.
Rev. Reene
"...What's happening to your tea is happening to everything everywhere. The sun and the stars. It'll take awhile but we're all going to end up at room temperature." - "Arcadia"
Come to that, I don't think I've noticed just nerve damage having much of an impact on the success of MB.
I'll have to test it some time... but it's definitely mostly the stun that helps success.
Rev. Reene
"...What's happening to your tea is happening to everything everywhere. The sun and the stars. It'll take awhile but we're all going to end up at room temperature." - "Arcadia"
MIZOSHIRI1
Re: MB. . .
07/26/2006 02:28 PM CDT
Like Sherley said, nerve damage is a modifier for both sides of a WvW contest. Being stunned is not, however I believe a successful cast on a stunned target yields unconsciousness, while it would only stun otherwise. If unconsciousness is possible from a single cast, it's simply a matter of mana effectiveness. The effect is different on an stunned target but I don't believe the stun makes the spell succeed any easier. That would be a factor of the nerve damage incurred by the first cast.
Same thing goes for IP. The stat/skill check is still there on a second cast of IP, however balance is a big modifier for SvA spells on the target end. That would make it the second cast at the same level much more devastating.
Of course, I could be wrong. I'm a barbarian after all.
-Gavyn
0067
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
Same thing goes for IP. The stat/skill check is still there on a second cast of IP, however balance is a big modifier for SvA spells on the target end. That would make it the second cast at the same level much more devastating.
Of course, I could be wrong. I'm a barbarian after all.
-Gavyn
0067
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
JUASON
Re: MB. . .
07/26/2006 04:43 PM CDT
While I agree on paper it would look that way with IP, in practice I find it to rarely be the case. Stuff regains balance too quickly ;P
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
HESPEROS
Re: MB. . .
07/27/2006 01:51 AM CDT
I had thought stunned helped, but even if not, Unconciousness definatly does. A 10 mana calm will immobilize most things I put to sleep with MB, Hurting the Defenses all that much more, (Lying down, unconcious, immobile). I tend not to use MB that much though, especially not in PvP, I like shear that much more, so I haven't tested it.
~~Dhimani.
~~Dhimani.
SPRCOW
Re: MB. . .
09/24/2006 08:41 AM CDT
>I had thought stunned helped, but even if not, Unconciousness definatly does. A 10 mana calm will immobilize most things I put to sleep with MB, Hurting the Defenses all that much more, (Lying down, unconcious, immobile). I tend not to use MB that much though, especially not in PvP, I like shear that much more, so I haven't tested it.
Stunned definitely helps. I don't know if it reduces their portion of the side of the equation from a general "defense modifier" perspective or what, but things that I need to use significantly more mana than min prep to stun once, I can usually affect with a second cast at min prep once they're already stunned. As Dhimani posted, stuff is super easy to immobilize with calm if it is stunned or unconcious as well.
Check out www.drplat.com - the DragonRealms Platinum community webpage!
Stunned definitely helps. I don't know if it reduces their portion of the side of the equation from a general "defense modifier" perspective or what, but things that I need to use significantly more mana than min prep to stun once, I can usually affect with a second cast at min prep once they're already stunned. As Dhimani posted, stuff is super easy to immobilize with calm if it is stunned or unconcious as well.
Check out www.drplat.com - the DragonRealms Platinum community webpage!
HALEXE
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 01:57 AM CDT
Roll a barb and quit QQing about overpowered mages, barbs are invincible to magic anyway.
TYCH
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 08:18 AM CDT
<<Roll a barb and quit QQing about overpowered mages, barbs are invincible to magic anyway.
Hardly. I get nailed by magic all the time.
Drevid
Hardly. I get nailed by magic all the time.
Drevid
BRFUQUOIS
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 11:01 AM CDT
><<Roll a barb and quit QQing about overpowered mages, barbs are invincible to magic anyway.
>Hardly. I get nailed by magic all the time.
Point of curiosity. Is the magic you are getting nailed by Targetted Magic? Or is it Stat Contest magic?
Fuquois
>Hardly. I get nailed by magic all the time.
Point of curiosity. Is the magic you are getting nailed by Targetted Magic? Or is it Stat Contest magic?
Fuquois
DR-ZEYURN
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 11:21 AM CDT
As a warning, this is already moving into "Stop rehashing the same old GvG argument territory."
-Z
-Z
TYCH
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 11:41 AM CDT
<<Point of curiosity. Is the magic you are getting nailed by Targetted Magic? Or is it Stat Contest magic?
To be honest I am not sure. I just know when I am messing around with my friends and they cast on me sometimes I break their spells and other times I get popped. Immune? As I said hardly.
Thing is I can't magically raise my BMR, but they can always pump mana in and bypass my BMR.
Funny though I seem to break more spells that aren't casted on me then are casted on me. Like Zypher, and Compost.
Anyways just my two cents.
Drevid
To be honest I am not sure. I just know when I am messing around with my friends and they cast on me sometimes I break their spells and other times I get popped. Immune? As I said hardly.
Thing is I can't magically raise my BMR, but they can always pump mana in and bypass my BMR.
Funny though I seem to break more spells that aren't casted on me then are casted on me. Like Zypher, and Compost.
Anyways just my two cents.
Drevid
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 12:46 PM CDT
> Thing is I can't magically raise my BMR
No, but you can significently increase it via nonmagical means, or directly nerf the caster. Take your pick.
> but they can always pump mana in and bypass my BMR.
Up to the spell cap. There is a limit to how far mana can be pumped, something a lot of people tend to conveniently forget.
I've run the numbers many times. After a certain point, barbarians DO become immune to magic. No, nobody is there yet. A few people are getting very close to the early stages of immunity (not all spells are equally easy/hard to resist).
How does this happen? Simple. There is a limit to how high people can raise their stats. There is a limit to how high skills can go. There are mana caps (yes, there really are). In other words, there is an absolute limit to how high the spell end of the contest can get, and an absolute limit to how high BMR can get. Guess which one wins in the end? BMR, by a fairly sizable margin, and that's without any bonuses whatsoever. If they use the right bonusing abilities, it goes from no contest to the realm of absurdity.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
No, but you can significently increase it via nonmagical means, or directly nerf the caster. Take your pick.
> but they can always pump mana in and bypass my BMR.
Up to the spell cap. There is a limit to how far mana can be pumped, something a lot of people tend to conveniently forget.
I've run the numbers many times. After a certain point, barbarians DO become immune to magic. No, nobody is there yet. A few people are getting very close to the early stages of immunity (not all spells are equally easy/hard to resist).
How does this happen? Simple. There is a limit to how high people can raise their stats. There is a limit to how high skills can go. There are mana caps (yes, there really are). In other words, there is an absolute limit to how high the spell end of the contest can get, and an absolute limit to how high BMR can get. Guess which one wins in the end? BMR, by a fairly sizable margin, and that's without any bonuses whatsoever. If they use the right bonusing abilities, it goes from no contest to the realm of absurdity.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 12:49 PM CDT
>>No, but you can significently increase it via nonmagical means
Yes.
>>or directly nerf the caster. Take your pick.
This also yes, but not so much that it ever becomes a factor worthy of consideration.
DIMINISHEDANGEL, you'd just barely start seeing some problems:
Tracking period : 360 min (6 hr 0 min)
Modified gain time : 284 min (4 hr 44 min) [78% of time]
Yes.
>>or directly nerf the caster. Take your pick.
This also yes, but not so much that it ever becomes a factor worthy of consideration.
DIMINISHEDANGEL, you'd just barely start seeing some problems:
Tracking period : 360 min (6 hr 0 min)
Modified gain time : 284 min (4 hr 44 min) [78% of time]
BRFUQUOIS
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 12:50 PM CDT
>>No, but you can significently increase it via nonmagical means
>Yes.
>>or directly nerf the caster. Take your pick.
>This also yes, but not so much that it ever becomes a factor worthy of consideration.
Or the Barbarian has the option to utilize both and gain an even greater chance to win the contest.
Fuquois
>Yes.
>>or directly nerf the caster. Take your pick.
>This also yes, but not so much that it ever becomes a factor worthy of consideration.
Or the Barbarian has the option to utilize both and gain an even greater chance to win the contest.
Fuquois
TYCH
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 12:55 PM CDT
Don't get me wrong Dartenian I wasn't complaining at all. I love playing a barb. Love everything about it. I was just giving some (and I know I will murder the spelling of this) antocedal evidence of what happens to me at level 92. To be honest I don't want to totally be immune to magic. What fun would that be?
PS. If anyone know what I was trying to spell please spell it correctly for me. Heh I am a horrible speller.
Drevid
PS. If anyone know what I was trying to spell please spell it correctly for me. Heh I am a horrible speller.
Drevid
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 12:55 PM CDT
>>.Or the Barbarian has the option to utilize both and gain an even greater chance to win the contest.
High-end BMR dancing brings us to the point of absurdity.
From my testing, Magic's Bane and Mage's Wrath harm magic in almost trivial ways, because PM/HA ranks outstrip other skills so much that it's like subtracting drops of water from a 10-gallon bucket.
The stat-subtraction roars like Everild's Rage do not, to my knowledge, function on stats that would lower magic power even indirectly.
Unless we're talking about all ways to cripple a mage (e.g., status changes like immobilization, which would most definitely count).
DIMINISHEDANGEL, you'd just barely start seeing some problems:
Tracking period : 360 min (6 hr 0 min)
Modified gain time : 284 min (4 hr 44 min) [78% of time]
High-end BMR dancing brings us to the point of absurdity.
From my testing, Magic's Bane and Mage's Wrath harm magic in almost trivial ways, because PM/HA ranks outstrip other skills so much that it's like subtracting drops of water from a 10-gallon bucket.
The stat-subtraction roars like Everild's Rage do not, to my knowledge, function on stats that would lower magic power even indirectly.
Unless we're talking about all ways to cripple a mage (e.g., status changes like immobilization, which would most definitely count).
DIMINISHEDANGEL, you'd just barely start seeing some problems:
Tracking period : 360 min (6 hr 0 min)
Modified gain time : 284 min (4 hr 44 min) [78% of time]
BRFUQUOIS
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 12:58 PM CDT
>PS. If anyone know what I was trying to spell please spell it correctly for me. Heh I am a horrible speller.
Anecdotal.
Fuquois
Anecdotal.
Fuquois
TYCH
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 01:00 PM CDT
<<Anecdotal.
Heh thank you. I always feel like a retard when I try spelling that one.
Drevid
Heh thank you. I always feel like a retard when I try spelling that one.
Drevid
BRFUQUOIS
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 01:05 PM CDT
Heh.. I'm the other way around. The big words seem to come easily, but I still misspell the little ones all the time.
And for the topic:
Mind Blast stuns people!
Fuquois
And for the topic:
Mind Blast stuns people!
Fuquois
DR-DARTENIAN
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 01:44 PM CDT
> To be honest I don't want to totally be immune to magic. What fun would that be?
Exactly! And I know I sometimes come across as being anti-BMR. I'm not. I'm just looking at the overall balance, and lo, there is none. Base MR is a joke. Any semblence of balance between BMR and spells is purely coincidental until you get to the final stages, where BMR becomes unbeatable. None of the above is really acceptable.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
Exactly! And I know I sometimes come across as being anti-BMR. I'm not. I'm just looking at the overall balance, and lo, there is none. Base MR is a joke. Any semblence of balance between BMR and spells is purely coincidental until you get to the final stages, where BMR becomes unbeatable. None of the above is really acceptable.
- GM Dartenian
"You ain't seen nothin' yet!" - Al Jolson
LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/dartenian/
BRFUQUOIS
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 02:18 PM CDT
>And I know I sometimes come across as being anti-BMR. I'm not.
He just hates Barbarians. Not as much as he hates Thieves, though (that being a requirement of all GMs).
Fuquois
He just hates Barbarians. Not as much as he hates Thieves, though (that being a requirement of all GMs).
Fuquois
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 02:34 PM CDT
>>He just hates Barbarians. Not as much as he hates Thieves, though (that being a requirement of all GMs).
Well of couse he hates Barbarians. So does Armifer. They work with magic systems and the problems with BMR make them lose sleep at night.
DIMINISHEDANGEL, you'd just barely start seeing some problems:
Tracking period : 360 min (6 hr 0 min)
Modified gain time : 284 min (4 hr 44 min) [78% of time]
Well of couse he hates Barbarians. So does Armifer. They work with magic systems and the problems with BMR make them lose sleep at night.
DIMINISHEDANGEL, you'd just barely start seeing some problems:
Tracking period : 360 min (6 hr 0 min)
Modified gain time : 284 min (4 hr 44 min) [78% of time]
JHIME
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 05:04 PM CDT
I'd like to take this moment to laugh at all my friends that said I was crazy for believing BMR could be so nuts at times.
TALINDA123
Re: MB. . .
03/25/2007 07:15 PM CDT
I have no problem with the changes if Vertigo, Frote Byte and many other spells that bypass magic resistance are looked at, in addition base magic resistance for barbs need to be increased if the dancing booster of magic resistance will be lowered because right now without dancing spells can destroy us easily and when we dance they miss so there has to be a middle ground.
Executioner Catullus
Executioner Catullus
