HEY Magic Team could you please read this. I believe it deserves a quick read so you understand how a few of us feel. I know you guys have alot on your plate but I believe its time we get something done in terms of magic devolopement since we are infact a magic prime guild. Thank you for looking at it and a simple. I READ IT would be appricated so that we can see that our concerns are not being ignored.
>>>There are three magic prime guilds, but clerics are very underdeveloped compared to the other two. Even bards have surpassed/are surpassing us. The cleric guild has been in place since the beginning of DR. The bard guild wasn't established until two (maybe three?) years later. I don't begrudge bards, and hope this isn't perceived as GvG, but as proof of the lack of attention we have gotten.
The moon mages, a non-combat guild, have more combat oriented spells than clerics. If we have combat reqs, we should have spells that reflect this. It's that simple. Spells won't fix all our problems, but it's a start.<<<
Reverent Amala
p.s. This is not ment as a GvG statement
______________________________________
Have any good scripts, altered items discriptions, or wiztrig profiles you don't mind sharing with other players? Submit them to xiamali@drtraders.net
WHITE-LILY
DR-TALIAN
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/06/2003 06:59 PM CDT
This would probably be why I as part of Magic Team am working on 5 spells for clerics eh?
Talian
Talian
CLYNCH6
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/07/2003 01:06 PM CDT
And if my post had been copied in its entirety, you would see that I'm thankful for that Talian. My secondary character, which I share with someone else, is a moon mage. It's a completely different stress factor for that character. Too many spells and paths to choose!
Talian, in case I haven't said it before, I want to personally say thank you for helping out. You can't deny that the clerics need a full time guru, though. You'll either be lynched by the moonies or burn yourself out if you try to play Temp Guru for us for too long.
It'd be nice if we could get some sort of update on the staffing issue. Just a simple, there are/have been applicants interviewed would be good enough to at least let us know there is work being done on that front. Unless Talian wants to jump ship and forget those crazy moonies and come on board full time... Come on, you know you want to!
Brother Heroiklim Zortal
Talian, in case I haven't said it before, I want to personally say thank you for helping out. You can't deny that the clerics need a full time guru, though. You'll either be lynched by the moonies or burn yourself out if you try to play Temp Guru for us for too long.
It'd be nice if we could get some sort of update on the staffing issue. Just a simple, there are/have been applicants interviewed would be good enough to at least let us know there is work being done on that front. Unless Talian wants to jump ship and forget those crazy moonies and come on board full time... Come on, you know you want to!
Brother Heroiklim Zortal
WHITE-LILY
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/08/2003 07:03 PM CDT
TM spells? Make Me Happy pls!
______________________________________
Have any good scripts, altered items discriptions, or wiztrig profiles you don't mind sharing with other players? Submit them to xiamali@drtraders.net
______________________________________
Have any good scripts, altered items discriptions, or wiztrig profiles you don't mind sharing with other players? Submit them to xiamali@drtraders.net
DR-TALIAN
CLYNCH6
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 02:00 AM CDT
Hey Talian,
How about a update on the status of the spells. I know your busy hashing out reqs for us, but a quickie never hurt anybody. Last I heard you were making good progress on the spells, then a few of us started discussing (that's the right word, isn't it?) reqs and we haven't heard anything about the spells. Primarily...
1. Does it currently look feasible for all 5 of the mentioned spells to be released for HWN (Soul Attrition, Murrula's Flame, Ring of Blessing, Chill Spirit rewrite, and cough the other one)? I've accepted we aren't likely to see any spells before then, with the slight possibility of raise.
2. Will/Can we have some sort of warning (IG through News is possible) when/if ChS gets tweaked? Some of us have gotten used to using it as part of our hunting arsenal. It would be nice to know ahead of time that we need to figure out the new limitations before relying on it to get us out of trouble.
3. Are reqs also waiting for HWN? Sorry, had to throw that in there.
4. Are there actually two people coding for Talian? It would explain how you can be a part of some many teams...
Thanks in advance,
-Brother Heroiklim Zortal
ps What was the circle req for MF before? 40th? Trying to figure out how many circles I need before Christmas. <hums>
How about a update on the status of the spells. I know your busy hashing out reqs for us, but a quickie never hurt anybody. Last I heard you were making good progress on the spells, then a few of us started discussing (that's the right word, isn't it?) reqs and we haven't heard anything about the spells. Primarily...
1. Does it currently look feasible for all 5 of the mentioned spells to be released for HWN (Soul Attrition, Murrula's Flame, Ring of Blessing, Chill Spirit rewrite, and cough the other one)? I've accepted we aren't likely to see any spells before then, with the slight possibility of raise.
2. Will/Can we have some sort of warning (IG through News is possible) when/if ChS gets tweaked? Some of us have gotten used to using it as part of our hunting arsenal. It would be nice to know ahead of time that we need to figure out the new limitations before relying on it to get us out of trouble.
3. Are reqs also waiting for HWN? Sorry, had to throw that in there.
4. Are there actually two people coding for Talian? It would explain how you can be a part of some many teams...
Thanks in advance,
-Brother Heroiklim Zortal
ps What was the circle req for MF before? 40th? Trying to figure out how many circles I need before Christmas. <hums>
TERKOWITZM
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 02:27 AM CDT
>ps What was the circle req for MF before? 40th? Trying to figure out how many circles I need before Christmas. <hums>
50th. I don't know if anyone was actually offered the quest at 50th though. There are some other requirements on it as well as just circle, from what Skralthaen said.
- Smeg
50th. I don't know if anyone was actually offered the quest at 50th though. There are some other requirements on it as well as just circle, from what Skralthaen said.
- Smeg
DR-TALIAN
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 08:53 AM CDT
>How about a update on the status of the spells.
Sure.
MF - Finished and in QC. Still needs some more work on the Quest tho.
CHS - Still tentative, so no promises here.
I got a new spell contest approved in concept. Spell VS Spirit. This allows us to customize more fully its interactions with the various checks and the stat makeup of those checks. Given that clerics should be the only ones to affect spirit, this can be considered a cleric only contest I suppose. The spell is still the game general concept, cast, waits a few and pulses and does spirit damage.
It will not be utilize TM or teach it. I think it'll still be handy, and the contest gives us some room to grow in that area. At this point it is completely finished and in QC, but depends on if we like how the contest pans out and it gets final approval.
Soul Attrition - Also being converted to this SPvS contest. Its an interesting spell in that it's held mana and pulses attacks. The basic structure is mostly done, but needs a lot more polish and refinement. Not entirely sure this one will make it, its kind of breaking some new ground in held mana spells with the contest addition.
MRE - Mostly finished, its all updated and works, but I'd like to see if I can refine the messaging. Kind of like how we did with ES, so its one line with all affected, instead of a couple lines per person and scrolling you out of the room.
RoB - No work done yet. I may tackle it soon, as I need a break from SA.
Talian
Sure.
MF - Finished and in QC. Still needs some more work on the Quest tho.
CHS - Still tentative, so no promises here.
I got a new spell contest approved in concept. Spell VS Spirit. This allows us to customize more fully its interactions with the various checks and the stat makeup of those checks. Given that clerics should be the only ones to affect spirit, this can be considered a cleric only contest I suppose. The spell is still the game general concept, cast, waits a few and pulses and does spirit damage.
It will not be utilize TM or teach it. I think it'll still be handy, and the contest gives us some room to grow in that area. At this point it is completely finished and in QC, but depends on if we like how the contest pans out and it gets final approval.
Soul Attrition - Also being converted to this SPvS contest. Its an interesting spell in that it's held mana and pulses attacks. The basic structure is mostly done, but needs a lot more polish and refinement. Not entirely sure this one will make it, its kind of breaking some new ground in held mana spells with the contest addition.
MRE - Mostly finished, its all updated and works, but I'd like to see if I can refine the messaging. Kind of like how we did with ES, so its one line with all affected, instead of a couple lines per person and scrolling you out of the room.
RoB - No work done yet. I may tackle it soon, as I need a break from SA.
Talian
DR-TALIAN
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 08:55 AM CDT
And I forgot to answer the other questions.
>1.
The other post mostly answers that one.
>2. Will/Can we have some sort of warning (IG through News is possible)
Yup, that shouldn't be a problem.
>3. Are reqs also waiting for HWN? Sorry, had to throw that in there.
Not sure yet.
>4. Are there actually two people coding for Talian? It would explain how you can be a part of some many teams...
My cat does most of the coding, I just supervise and clean the keyboard occasioanlly.
Talian
>1.
The other post mostly answers that one.
>2. Will/Can we have some sort of warning (IG through News is possible)
Yup, that shouldn't be a problem.
>3. Are reqs also waiting for HWN? Sorry, had to throw that in there.
Not sure yet.
>4. Are there actually two people coding for Talian? It would explain how you can be a part of some many teams...
My cat does most of the coding, I just supervise and clean the keyboard occasioanlly.
Talian
GONIFTHEEF
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 09:11 AM CDT
<<My cat does most of the coding, I just supervise and clean the keyboard occasioanlly.Talian >>
someone tell furball to get back to working for the thieves.
~Weak of arm, lousy roars;
terrible aim, awful health;
broken fingers, no real stealth;
leave em dead, cause you cant do more; lost your coins, on the floor;
greetings! now you're out the door~
>
VALTIES
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 09:47 AM CDT
I noticed many of our spells work in pulses. AE, which is a decent spell takes time to actually do anything. Halo, we still see a little lag before it actually does something. Divine Radiance and Harm Evil have immediate effects with a cast and I like this very much. CHS.. still there is a duration here wear nothing much really happens to the victim except messaging.
From what I have noticed this.. pulsing is going to be the trend to our spells. What are the chances of giving RT to our victims as they feel their bodies being chilled before their spirit is actually drained. In CvC situations there is still a small gap for them to get the bolt fired at us. When you think about it, RT would make sense. If you feel your body chilled to the bone you would get extremely sluggish and incapable of doing much.
Daxlynn
From what I have noticed this.. pulsing is going to be the trend to our spells. What are the chances of giving RT to our victims as they feel their bodies being chilled before their spirit is actually drained. In CvC situations there is still a small gap for them to get the bolt fired at us. When you think about it, RT would make sense. If you feel your body chilled to the bone you would get extremely sluggish and incapable of doing much.
Daxlynn
CLYNCH6
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 05:15 PM CDT
Talian,
Got another question for you.
<<Soul Attrition - Also being converted to this SPvS contest. Its an interesting spell in that it's held mana and pulses attacks. The basic structure is mostly done, but needs a lot more polish and refinement. Not entirely sure this one will make it, its kind of breaking some new ground in held mana spells with the contest addition.>>
We were told (during the Con I think?) that this spell was going to work with Osrel Meraud. Is this still planned?
Also, as much as I would like to think Spirit will ALWAYS and forever be Cleric territory, I can't help but have nightmares about ChS in a runestone. Not sure if this affect QC, but I know if I were testing it, I'd take a shortcut and only test it with cleric characters and not bother seeing what happens if say, a moon mage in RF tries to cast it. Note: The spirit being returned to the caster pulls the caster out of hiding if you are hidden/invis between the cast and the pulse.
In fact, can this be looked at so that if the caster doesn't need the spirit (I think the streams kind of disperse or something, can't recall the exact messaging) then it wouldn't pull the caster out of hiding? It makes sense if glowing silver streams are being yanked away from the target and being absorbed by the caster that you wouldn't be able to hide your location, but if it's dispersing only a couple feet from the target, why should this pull us out? Or if the pulling out of hiding is a wanted feature of the spell for balance issues (not sure how, since most clerics can't hide from a pile of dung) can we get the messaging updated to reflect that the spirit is returning to the caster THEN dispersing harmlessly into the air? The current message makes it sound like it just leaves the target then disappears.
Brother Heroiklim Zortal
...just trying to help you out, honest!
Got another question for you.
<<Soul Attrition - Also being converted to this SPvS contest. Its an interesting spell in that it's held mana and pulses attacks. The basic structure is mostly done, but needs a lot more polish and refinement. Not entirely sure this one will make it, its kind of breaking some new ground in held mana spells with the contest addition.>>
We were told (during the Con I think?) that this spell was going to work with Osrel Meraud. Is this still planned?
Also, as much as I would like to think Spirit will ALWAYS and forever be Cleric territory, I can't help but have nightmares about ChS in a runestone. Not sure if this affect QC, but I know if I were testing it, I'd take a shortcut and only test it with cleric characters and not bother seeing what happens if say, a moon mage in RF tries to cast it. Note: The spirit being returned to the caster pulls the caster out of hiding if you are hidden/invis between the cast and the pulse.
In fact, can this be looked at so that if the caster doesn't need the spirit (I think the streams kind of disperse or something, can't recall the exact messaging) then it wouldn't pull the caster out of hiding? It makes sense if glowing silver streams are being yanked away from the target and being absorbed by the caster that you wouldn't be able to hide your location, but if it's dispersing only a couple feet from the target, why should this pull us out? Or if the pulling out of hiding is a wanted feature of the spell for balance issues (not sure how, since most clerics can't hide from a pile of dung) can we get the messaging updated to reflect that the spirit is returning to the caster THEN dispersing harmlessly into the air? The current message makes it sound like it just leaves the target then disappears.
Brother Heroiklim Zortal
...just trying to help you out, honest!
ALDEN
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 05:34 PM CDT
Talian,
my two cents on soul attrition.
If this is a held mana spell to attack the spirit of just one creature, then I worry whether it will be of any real value, even if it does seem interesting.
There are so many spells that kill so effectively- and quickly, that a spell that kills slowly over time I believe will not be really useful. For instance, my cleric has Malediction, which is an interesting spell in its own way- it can curse a creatures offense or defense. This seems like it would be extremely useful. However, actually what it is useful for is training. Using Malediction its possible to train mundane defenses and weapons easier than without it. But if I want to kill something I use Harm Evil, and for less mana kill it.
So, I just want to suggestthat while developing Soul Attrition that 'usefulness' is kept in mind. IF it is designed to kill things that it does it effectively and quickly, as opposed to CHS or AE. If it is designed primarily to impede so we can train better that it does that. Or will it affect many creatures at once- now that would be interesting.
Flavius
my two cents on soul attrition.
If this is a held mana spell to attack the spirit of just one creature, then I worry whether it will be of any real value, even if it does seem interesting.
There are so many spells that kill so effectively- and quickly, that a spell that kills slowly over time I believe will not be really useful. For instance, my cleric has Malediction, which is an interesting spell in its own way- it can curse a creatures offense or defense. This seems like it would be extremely useful. However, actually what it is useful for is training. Using Malediction its possible to train mundane defenses and weapons easier than without it. But if I want to kill something I use Harm Evil, and for less mana kill it.
So, I just want to suggestthat while developing Soul Attrition that 'usefulness' is kept in mind. IF it is designed to kill things that it does it effectively and quickly, as opposed to CHS or AE. If it is designed primarily to impede so we can train better that it does that. Or will it affect many creatures at once- now that would be interesting.
Flavius
TORTOLIA23
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 06:13 PM CDT
Appreciate the updates, Talian.
Bit of a question about spirit damage, since we're on the subject.
Currently, when a creature is drained of all spirit energy, they don't fall over immediately - there is a time delay where they appraise as being "without life", but are completely unimpeded until their spirit pulses, then they die. I can't say if this is the same on players, but I believe this is similar.
Is this going to remain the same in the future, or will spirit damage be modified so that spirit death occurs instantly when a creature or player bottoms out (similar to vitality death before the Dying mechanic was introduced)?
I believe spirit spells will be more useful to us if we can be assured that when a creature runs out of spirit, they die then - whereas currently, using Chill Spirit, there is a lot of waiting involved - the delay between the spell cast and the spirit damage, and then the delay between the spirit health pool being completely emptied and the creature actually falling over.
Spirit spells will probably see more use if we can be assured that creatures will die immediately, regardless of TM teaching. (Currently, if I'm in a swarm of living creatures, I don't start chilling their spirits and hope I make it out alive, I invoke my Halo spell and get the heck out of there).
-Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"Remember, DR is all about fantasy. Many people invest themselves in their heroic fantasy; they're absolutely aghast when people don't leap to help them. After all, they're the hero." - Larcus' Player
Bit of a question about spirit damage, since we're on the subject.
Currently, when a creature is drained of all spirit energy, they don't fall over immediately - there is a time delay where they appraise as being "without life", but are completely unimpeded until their spirit pulses, then they die. I can't say if this is the same on players, but I believe this is similar.
Is this going to remain the same in the future, or will spirit damage be modified so that spirit death occurs instantly when a creature or player bottoms out (similar to vitality death before the Dying mechanic was introduced)?
I believe spirit spells will be more useful to us if we can be assured that when a creature runs out of spirit, they die then - whereas currently, using Chill Spirit, there is a lot of waiting involved - the delay between the spell cast and the spirit damage, and then the delay between the spirit health pool being completely emptied and the creature actually falling over.
Spirit spells will probably see more use if we can be assured that creatures will die immediately, regardless of TM teaching. (Currently, if I'm in a swarm of living creatures, I don't start chilling their spirits and hope I make it out alive, I invoke my Halo spell and get the heck out of there).
-Syralon
Cleric of Ushnish
"Remember, DR is all about fantasy. Many people invest themselves in their heroic fantasy; they're absolutely aghast when people don't leap to help them. After all, they're the hero." - Larcus' Player
TERKOWITZM
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 07:35 PM CDT
>There are so many spells that kill so effectively- and quickly, that a spell that kills slowly over time I believe will not be really useful.
Unless it can be used in a room-wide manner (or some other way of dealing with multiple targets at once) I agree with you. DOT doesn't seem very useful in DragonRealms just due to the overpowered nature of all combat manouvers in general. I routinely kill things in 2-3 attacks with my weapon or 2-3 casts of HE. I'm looking at 4 seconds of time for that. DOT which hits once every 5-10 seconds and doesn't kill in the first pulse is just not all that useful (not to mention the fact that, by design, spirit death doesn't kick in right away). The fact that it might be able to hit the target even after you leave really doesn't buy you anything. If I can drop it in 4 seconds with a different spell/mundane weapons, why wait 30 while a spell pulses to kill it?
>MF - Finished and in QC. Still needs some more work on the Quest tho.
Hopefully something has been added to this spell to lessen the probability of "double death syndrome" that the last version of the spell suffered from. It was never really a bug with the original spell, more just a nuisance with the way it was designed.
- Smeg
Unless it can be used in a room-wide manner (or some other way of dealing with multiple targets at once) I agree with you. DOT doesn't seem very useful in DragonRealms just due to the overpowered nature of all combat manouvers in general. I routinely kill things in 2-3 attacks with my weapon or 2-3 casts of HE. I'm looking at 4 seconds of time for that. DOT which hits once every 5-10 seconds and doesn't kill in the first pulse is just not all that useful (not to mention the fact that, by design, spirit death doesn't kick in right away). The fact that it might be able to hit the target even after you leave really doesn't buy you anything. If I can drop it in 4 seconds with a different spell/mundane weapons, why wait 30 while a spell pulses to kill it?
>MF - Finished and in QC. Still needs some more work on the Quest tho.
Hopefully something has been added to this spell to lessen the probability of "double death syndrome" that the last version of the spell suffered from. It was never really a bug with the original spell, more just a nuisance with the way it was designed.
- Smeg
ALDEN
TELYNN
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 07:49 PM CDT
I think CHS being TM spell could be easily explained. True, your not targetting body parts, your targetting the spirit.
If that were the case, Revelation could be given a huge new use, by making it work for CHS like See the Wind works for bows and arrows.
I never understood why revelation only showed you the spirits of those hidden, should be able to see the spirits of those standing right in front of you as well.
Telynn
If that were the case, Revelation could be given a huge new use, by making it work for CHS like See the Wind works for bows and arrows.
I never understood why revelation only showed you the spirits of those hidden, should be able to see the spirits of those standing right in front of you as well.
Telynn
ENDOJ5
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 07:52 PM CDT
>Smegs, what is DOT?
Death over time I believe.
-Treshan
>The vengeful shade tries to tend its wounds.
>A pale grey death spirit whispers to itself.
>A vengeful shade appears confused.
>The grey death spirit tries to tend its wounds.
>A tortured soul howls and stumbles about, seeking an exit.
Death over time I believe.
-Treshan
>The vengeful shade tries to tend its wounds.
>A pale grey death spirit whispers to itself.
>A vengeful shade appears confused.
>The grey death spirit tries to tend its wounds.
>A tortured soul howls and stumbles about, seeking an exit.
WALDNERC
TERKOWITZM
Re: Cross Post from Cleric's
10/09/2003 11:36 PM CDT
>Smegs, what is DOT?
As Ambreene said, it stands for "damage over time." It's a term used in a lot of MMORPGs to mean a spell like Soul Attrition which deals damage .. over .. time. Just from experience, DOTs can be useful for crowd control or in games in which killing things can take a while. I just don't think it's as useful for us in DragonRealms, though.
- Smeg
As Ambreene said, it stands for "damage over time." It's a term used in a lot of MMORPGs to mean a spell like Soul Attrition which deals damage .. over .. time. Just from experience, DOTs can be useful for crowd control or in games in which killing things can take a while. I just don't think it's as useful for us in DragonRealms, though.
- Smeg
