Just curious (And sorry if a GM already answered such a question) - Is there any chance that with enough Sorcery skill, we will be able to permanently learn non-guild spells from scrolls instead of simply temporarily invoking them?

Difficulty could vary depending on mana type of the spell, e.g.
Same mana type, different guild - 100 sorcery
Different mana type - 300 sorcery
Two different mana types - 500 sorcery

Or something to that degree, perhaps? Necromancers could get the benefit of reduced requirements (50, 125, 200?) or something of the sort - this would let them to carry around an array of other-guild spells for the sake of passing as another kind of guild as well.

If I remember a previous (long ago) post correctly, outside of any lore reasons, there's a mechanical reason as to why we can't learn other guild spells. Each spell is listed as a number for your guild. So, if you've got courage, which is paladin spell 3 memorized, you couldn't learn bless, which is cleric spell 3. Not sure if this storage method is changing with new magic, but even if it did, I'd say there's enough lore to show why you wouldn't be able to learn another guild's spells.


DRPrime - Celeres Turrance
DRPrime - NecroUnknown

In the case of paladins, it fits thematically that a weapon is holy in their hands. This is already covered by the smite ability and by holy weapons.

And so are their hands when they brawl.

I'd love my paladin to have all sorts of great abilities, but at some point clerics become redundant outside of rezz if certain iconic abilities go to others.

>>While I agree for most situations, I don't understand why a Paladin couldn't Bless. Fits thematically with the guild and is the same mana frequency. Same with Rangers and Sprout (though nobody wants Sprout anyway)

The same reason a Warrior Mage can't learn Khri. Conceivably, sure, why not? But that's not the point, keeping the guilds distinct and hopefully giving everyone something desirable is.

Scrolls and runes are meant to give you a taste of what playing with somebody else's toys are like, but ultimately they are just that.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

<<Not that I'm agreeing Paladins should be able to bless, but for the record, I believe this is going away with magic 3.0. Or more specifically, becoming spell based, not an innate/soul based ability.

Really? That would make me sad. I always loved the idea that if all else fails I can flail away at the cursed minions.


Madigan

Yes. It was actually a GM post in the cleric folder after their spell list came out. I'll see if I can find it.

~Katt

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A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!

>> it's somewhere above the minimum for pristine and I could never get it to work.

The brawling bonus appears to be a high-end pristine thing, which creates very specific problems with Paladins 3.0 (everything is now 3.0).

IF GMs believe that glyphs and other soul abilities should be used more often
AND that glyphs and other soul abilities should still draw from the soul pool
THEN the current brawling bonus is a bit ineffective, because it essentially goes "don't use this group of abilities we want to expand and improve upon so you can do this one other thing"

>>I really like the idea of it becoming a Glyph.

Me too. If Glyphs are shifting into something used on a more daily basis, I have nothing against Paladins glyphing themselves holy for a set amount of time.

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"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER

Thanks for the cross-references Katt.

Madigan

You know, at least in my view, I will always view bless as a cleric thing.


Madigan

>One of the primary reasons SOP is being removed (renamed really) is that guilds shall not share spells in M3.

I don't remember this being mentioned, but it could easily be true. However, I don't really see the point in having two spells in the same mana frequency that do the same thing. With the Empath list not posted yet, I'd be concerned if they didn't get some kind of defensive boost spell, and evasion is their only secondary physical defense.


Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer

>The Ranger 3.0 spell list explicitly stated this.

I didn't see it explicitly stated that it was because they don't want guilds to share spells. The Empath spell list has not been released. I think it's a waste of effort/efficiency if they make another Life mana Evasion booster, when Natural Grace already exists.


Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer

>Creating such a spell may just require writing a start-message, an end-message, and a perceive-message.

I've heard several GMs say that the creative messaging for spells is generally the hardest part, so this doesn't really help the case of 'not a lot of effort'. Obviously it depends on the person, but being creative can be one of the hardest things of any endeavor.


Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer

>I've heard that about TM-spells, but TM spells have lots of messaging. A vanilla buffer might have significantly less.

But with less functionality comes less coding too. It's possible it's just a single function call.


Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer

<<DANFORD

Where in my post did I say I was responding to that? Someone said that they hadn't heard that Rangers were losing SoP and I responded directly to that. I certainly explicitly states that.

As for two life evasion boosters... why not? Harmony(3.0) or Naming of Tears(2.0) and Swirling Winds come to mind for example.

-Evran

Gay, geeky, and a little bit cheeky.

If it's any consolation, Opieus, I hadn't opened this thread in awhile and as I was reading it, I couldn't help thinking just what you were. Meaning, I think that your responses were crystal clear.


- Terra