I've been working on a script for Genie to replicate the spell countdown timer in Stormfront, and in the process of this I've had the chance to look very closely at spell prep times. I wanted to share my findings with everyone, because there are a few aspects that are surprising. I know that I wasn't aware of them until I started testing.
Spell Types:
Battle - 8 seconds.
Area Battle - 12 seconds.
Ritual - 32 seconds.
Standard - 20 seconds.
TM - 10 seconds.
Area TM - 14 seconds.
Spell prep times appear to be static and unaffected by anything other than feats. The variations I've seen I attribute to differences in internet traffic. On the times I've listed I've chosen to err on the high side. You may see actual prep times that are ever so slightly less.
The Faster Battle Preparations and Faster Targeting feats reduce 2 seconds from the prep times of their respective types. Interestingly, Cyclic TM spells appear be either Battle or Area Battle spells, and have their prep times reduced by the Faster Battle Preparations feat. I'm guessing this is because they do not technically use the Target verb.
Just thought I'd share what I've found with everyone. Enjoy!
- Saragos
SARAGOS
SEPED
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 12:18 AM CDT
I'm assuming Genie just swallows it, but if you make a plugin you should have access to the raw xml coming across and you can just look for progressBar castTime elements which you can compare to prompt time xml values to get the remaining cast time. Regardless you should add those numbers to e-pedia, good data is always hard to find.
SARAGOS
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 12:35 AM CDT
That's a good point - I'll add it to epedia. I haven't dug into the xml yet - currently I'm using a trigger/script combo and outputting to the statusbar, which actually works surprisingly well. I'll definitely release that when I'm done. Writing a plugin would be within my capabilities, but doing so would be pending me having both the time and the sense that my existing solution isn't working well enough for me. We'll see how that goes.
- Saragos
- Saragos
ABSOLON
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 01:26 AM CDT
<<That's a good point - I'll add it to epedia.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Magic#Spell_Types
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Magical_feats#Spell_Preparation
Most of what you have listed is already there, plus some other information you missed, although without a TM distinction and with approximate times. If you add stuff to the wiki then do it in those places.
Comments:
It's also more than just AoE in the pair of prep times. E.g. battle vss aoe battle. Anything that makes the spell more powerful or different makes it the increased prep time of the pair. E.g. AoE, DFA, multi-strike, presumably heavy TM when it comes out, etc. Even more interesting is that even if you can only cast the spell with a single target non-special effect, but the spell has the potential to be AoE or special mechanic, the spell still has the increased prep time. E.g. Bless is normally a standard single target spell, but it has the potential to be AoE if you know Ring of Blessings. Because of this it is always at the longer prep time even if you don't know RoB. Clerics and Bards tend to have longer prep times because of this, while Moon Mages and Necromancers tend to have shorter.
Also, are you sure about the faster battle preparations feat reducing by 2 seconds? I ask, because back when the faster TM feat was determined to be not working as intended it was because the 1 second reduction was being subsumed by lag in the way the game handles timers and wouldn't show up to the player. The TM feat was fixed at the time to be 2 second reduction, but when I tested the faster battle spell feat because it was supposed to have the same time reduction I found it was still not showing any effect. Presumably for the same reason. I posted about it, but never got a response. It's possible they adjusted it without telling us. I just wanted to be sure.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Magic#Spell_Types
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Magical_feats#Spell_Preparation
Most of what you have listed is already there, plus some other information you missed, although without a TM distinction and with approximate times. If you add stuff to the wiki then do it in those places.
Comments:
It's also more than just AoE in the pair of prep times. E.g. battle vss aoe battle. Anything that makes the spell more powerful or different makes it the increased prep time of the pair. E.g. AoE, DFA, multi-strike, presumably heavy TM when it comes out, etc. Even more interesting is that even if you can only cast the spell with a single target non-special effect, but the spell has the potential to be AoE or special mechanic, the spell still has the increased prep time. E.g. Bless is normally a standard single target spell, but it has the potential to be AoE if you know Ring of Blessings. Because of this it is always at the longer prep time even if you don't know RoB. Clerics and Bards tend to have longer prep times because of this, while Moon Mages and Necromancers tend to have shorter.
Also, are you sure about the faster battle preparations feat reducing by 2 seconds? I ask, because back when the faster TM feat was determined to be not working as intended it was because the 1 second reduction was being subsumed by lag in the way the game handles timers and wouldn't show up to the player. The TM feat was fixed at the time to be 2 second reduction, but when I tested the faster battle spell feat because it was supposed to have the same time reduction I found it was still not showing any effect. Presumably for the same reason. I posted about it, but never got a response. It's possible they adjusted it without telling us. I just wanted to be sure.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 10:08 AM CDT
I use action to set a variable for my spells. Starts at 0 when no spell top of script, goes to 1 when prepped, goes to 2 when "fully prepared or targetted, drops to 0 if spell is lost because of stun or other failure. If at 0, prep next spell, if at 2 then cast. This allows me to not have to account for various prep times.
Jalika
2DUMBARSE
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 11:03 AM CDT
I've found prep time to vary based on skill set. It's significantly longer on my M tert than my primary. I don't recall reading about that anywhere but it makes sense.
ABSOLON
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 02:18 PM CDT
If you're comparing Paladin with Warrior Mage then what you're seeing is likely because paladins have a lot fewer battle spells relative to warrior mages and fewer TM options. Since battle and TM spells have very short preparation times, a warrior mage is more likely than a paladin to be getting smaller preparation times overall.
The flip side: Clerics have noticeably higher preparation times, for example, because most of their buffs can be made AoE via Ring of Blessings and many of their targeted magic spells are DFA, multistrike, etc. Moon Mages are somewhere in between the other magic primes, not having many battle spells, but also not having much AoE so they tend to average out.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
The flip side: Clerics have noticeably higher preparation times, for example, because most of their buffs can be made AoE via Ring of Blessings and many of their targeted magic spells are DFA, multistrike, etc. Moon Mages are somewhere in between the other magic primes, not having many battle spells, but also not having much AoE so they tend to average out.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
MAGE-WARRIOR
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 02:26 PM CDT
War Mages also have both TM feats inately which will speed up their TM prep times.
SARAGOS
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/18/2016 08:32 PM CDT
> Most of what you have listed is already there, plus some other information you missed, although without a TM distinction and with approximate times. If you add stuff to the wiki then do it in those places.
I'll definitely update there. Some of those numbers are out of date. Battle spells, at least, are definitely a base 8, unless there's some other variable I'm not aware of that's lowering the prep time on every character I've tested with. I'll update there once I'm completely finished.
> It's also more than just AoE in the pair of prep times. E.g. battle vss aoe battle. Anything that makes the spell more powerful or different makes it the increased prep time of the pair. E.g. AoE, DFA, multi-strike, presumably heavy TM when it comes out, etc.
Actually, both LB and Burn, the two DFA spells that are convenient for me to test, have the standard target time - 10 seconds or 8 with the feat. Gar Zeng, on the other hand, does have the 4 second penalty, for reasons I cannot fathom, since multi-strike spells are of questionable utility compared to single target spells. I should jump into test and look at the heavy TM spells.
> Even more interesting is that even if you can only cast the spell with a single target non-special effect, but the spell has the potential to be AoE or special mechanic, the spell still has the increased prep time. E.g. Bless is normally a standard single target spell, but it has the potential to be AoE if you know Ring of Blessings. Because of this it is always at the longer prep time even if you don't know RoB. Clerics and Bards tend to have longer prep times because of this, while Moon Mages and Necromancers tend to have shorter.
Yeah, I definitely need to spend some time with those classes. I've started testing with WM and MM primarily.
> Also, are you sure about the faster battle preparations feat reducing by 2 seconds? I ask, because back when the faster TM feat was determined to be not working as intended it was because the 1 second reduction was being subsumed by lag in the way the game handles timers and wouldn't show up to the player. The TM feat was fixed at the time to be 2 second reduction, but when I tested the faster battle spell feat because it was supposed to have the same time reduction I found it was still not showing any effect. Presumably for the same reason. I posted about it, but never got a response. It's possible they adjusted it without telling us. I just wanted to be sure.
After running some more extensive numbers, it does actually look like Faster Battle Prep is a 1 second reduction. Good catch. It's kind of hard to tell sometimes with such small differences and accounting for lag. It would be nice if it was raised to 2 seconds.
> If you're comparing Paladin with Warrior Mage then what you're seeing is likely because paladins have a lot fewer battle spells relative to warrior mages and fewer TM options. Since battle and TM spells have very short preparation times, a warrior mage is more likely than a paladin to be getting smaller preparation times overall.
Yeah. Sometimes the differences are surprising, and it's not just by skillset. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a Debil spell that wasn't also a Battle spell until I looked at the MM spell list more closely.
- Saragos
I'll definitely update there. Some of those numbers are out of date. Battle spells, at least, are definitely a base 8, unless there's some other variable I'm not aware of that's lowering the prep time on every character I've tested with. I'll update there once I'm completely finished.
> It's also more than just AoE in the pair of prep times. E.g. battle vss aoe battle. Anything that makes the spell more powerful or different makes it the increased prep time of the pair. E.g. AoE, DFA, multi-strike, presumably heavy TM when it comes out, etc.
Actually, both LB and Burn, the two DFA spells that are convenient for me to test, have the standard target time - 10 seconds or 8 with the feat. Gar Zeng, on the other hand, does have the 4 second penalty, for reasons I cannot fathom, since multi-strike spells are of questionable utility compared to single target spells. I should jump into test and look at the heavy TM spells.
> Even more interesting is that even if you can only cast the spell with a single target non-special effect, but the spell has the potential to be AoE or special mechanic, the spell still has the increased prep time. E.g. Bless is normally a standard single target spell, but it has the potential to be AoE if you know Ring of Blessings. Because of this it is always at the longer prep time even if you don't know RoB. Clerics and Bards tend to have longer prep times because of this, while Moon Mages and Necromancers tend to have shorter.
Yeah, I definitely need to spend some time with those classes. I've started testing with WM and MM primarily.
> Also, are you sure about the faster battle preparations feat reducing by 2 seconds? I ask, because back when the faster TM feat was determined to be not working as intended it was because the 1 second reduction was being subsumed by lag in the way the game handles timers and wouldn't show up to the player. The TM feat was fixed at the time to be 2 second reduction, but when I tested the faster battle spell feat because it was supposed to have the same time reduction I found it was still not showing any effect. Presumably for the same reason. I posted about it, but never got a response. It's possible they adjusted it without telling us. I just wanted to be sure.
After running some more extensive numbers, it does actually look like Faster Battle Prep is a 1 second reduction. Good catch. It's kind of hard to tell sometimes with such small differences and accounting for lag. It would be nice if it was raised to 2 seconds.
> If you're comparing Paladin with Warrior Mage then what you're seeing is likely because paladins have a lot fewer battle spells relative to warrior mages and fewer TM options. Since battle and TM spells have very short preparation times, a warrior mage is more likely than a paladin to be getting smaller preparation times overall.
Yeah. Sometimes the differences are surprising, and it's not just by skillset. I didn't even know there was such a thing as a Debil spell that wasn't also a Battle spell until I looked at the MM spell list more closely.
- Saragos
2DUMBARSE
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/19/2016 09:31 PM CDT
>If you're comparing Paladin with Warrior Mage then what you're seeing is likely because paladins have a lot fewer battle spells relative to warrior mages and fewer TM options. Since battle and TM spells have very short preparation times, a warrior mage is more likely than a paladin to be getting smaller preparation times overall.
You guys are right, sorry; there's no difference. I was comparing aug/utility spells, but ABSOLON touched on the difference I was seeing in an earlier post. Courage was skewing my perception because it's area castable and therefore has a higher (~26 second) prep. I don't use any AoE utility spells on my WM when I hunt.
Would be kinda cool if you could work down prep time with skill, even if it's just a small amount.
You guys are right, sorry; there's no difference. I was comparing aug/utility spells, but ABSOLON touched on the difference I was seeing in an earlier post. Courage was skewing my perception because it's area castable and therefore has a higher (~26 second) prep. I don't use any AoE utility spells on my WM when I hunt.
Would be kinda cool if you could work down prep time with skill, even if it's just a small amount.
2DUMBARSE
Re: Spell Prep Times
06/20/2016 09:49 AM CDT
>Would be kinda cool if you could work down prep time with skill, even if it's just a small amount.
It struck me this morning this is probably a dumb idea because it'd be redundant. Obviously, you don't need to wait for full prep with enough skill.
It struck me this morning this is probably a dumb idea because it'd be redundant. Obviously, you don't need to wait for full prep with enough skill.
