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SKL
3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 03:22 PM CDT
Is the new rebalanced backlash working as intended?
I'm blowing off my hands with 1625 sorcery every few hours. I'm using a basic spell in the lowest risk category for my mana type.
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 03:55 PM CDT
What spell? How much mana? Are you using symbiosis? What's the mana types (Yours and the spells)? What, if anything, are you doing different from before 3.2.?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
SKL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 05:06 PM CDT
Thanks for answering so quickly.
I'm using Aura Sight, 45 mana now(I was using 57 before the 3.2 page) resolve symbiosis. My magic is holy magic and the spell is lunar.
I'm not doing anything different. The only thing I've done so far is tried to lower the mana to reduce backlash. I was learning well with 57 before the patch, but after it I'm getting a lot of backlash. Pre patch I would get stunned with backlash maybe twice or three times a day, never lost my hand. I'm still losing my hands at 45 mana, but it's not really enough to teach.
ULIAN
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 09:54 PM CDT
>> I'm not doing anything different. The only thing I've done so far is tried to lower the mana to reduce backlash.
I'm sure Raesh will correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that mana didn't affect sorcery backlash chance.
I'm sure Raesh will correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that mana didn't affect sorcery backlash chance.
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 10:33 PM CDT
Backlash rates were standardized and generally get riskier for the really advanced spells. I'm not in a position right now to confirm which way AUS went.
I would recommend not combining sorcery and symbiosis.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
I would recommend not combining sorcery and symbiosis.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ABSOLON
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 10:39 PM CDT
<<I'm sure Raesh will correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that mana didn't affect sorcery backlash chance.
This is my recollection as well.
Something about he wanted it to be, but it didn't mix well with training since it would have resulted in too narrow windows where a spell could train without being backlash heavy and finding a spell that would actually work as a trainer because of it. Or something. I recall him also correcting me slightly on this part... But to what I can't recall.
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This is my recollection as well.
Something about he wanted it to be, but it didn't mix well with training since it would have resulted in too narrow windows where a spell could train without being backlash heavy and finding a spell that would actually work as a trainer because of it. Or something. I recall him also correcting me slightly on this part... But to what I can't recall.
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DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
07/31/2016 11:37 PM CDT
Now that I can check I can safely say that the blacklash rate for AUS more than tripled... but this was because it was absurdly low pre 3.2. As in, one of the lowest rates in the game outside of intro spells. It remains one of the safer spells to use.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
SKL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 03:06 AM CDT
Ah, ok. I'll mess with different spells then. I could tell the backlash rate was significantly higher, I was assuming it might have been a bug.
It's hard not to use symbiosis when I can't always find the perfect scroll, or without using a ridiculous amount of mana to learn even a tiny bit.
I thought if I'm having issues with a basic tier spell at 1625, then others would have even more issues learning sorc.
FRANKYFIGGS
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 03:14 AM CDT
blacklash ey Raesh? slipping spoilers on that hyglomoponic sorchery you keep teasing about?
-Munch-
-Munch-
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 08:07 AM CDT
My recommendation to avoid symbiosis with sorcery is because of the way the two systems interact you end up with a more difficulty being added then I think most people are aware of which, in turn, means when you do cause a backlash it's going to be a lot worse.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ULIAN
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 10:30 AM CDT
>> My recommendation to avoid symbiosis with sorcery is because of the way the two systems interact you end up with a more difficulty being added then I think most people are aware of which, in turn, means when you do cause a backlash it's going to be a lot worse.
So symb indirectly increases the backlash potency? Interesting.
Symb is a really great training tool, and I know all of my characters switch to it as soon as they are able, to save mana while training. I'd be sad if you couldn't use it with sorcery, but I do understand sorcery is meant to be difficult and punishing.
So symb indirectly increases the backlash potency? Interesting.
Symb is a really great training tool, and I know all of my characters switch to it as soon as they are able, to save mana while training. I'd be sad if you couldn't use it with sorcery, but I do understand sorcery is meant to be difficult and punishing.
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 05:47 PM CDT
>>So symb indirectly increases the backlash potency? Interesting.
>>Symb is a really great training tool, and I know all of my characters switch to it as soon as they are able, to save mana while training. I'd be sad if you couldn't use it with sorcery, but I do understand sorcery is meant to be difficult and punishing.
Yes and no.
What happens is that the symbiosis pushes up the min difficulty by a flat amount so you get weird situations like casting an intro spell with a symbiosis at 1 mana is as hard as casting an esoteric spell without a symbiosis at 1 mana. And then Sorcery goes in and throws a multiplier on that based on how bad the mana mix is and suddenly you're trying to cast a spell with a difficulty off the charts at even 1 mana. You lose your granularity.
The backlash rate itself does't go up but the harder you challenge yourself with sorcery the more the system will smack you down. If you're operating in a safe range you're going to get fairly tame and with a symbiosis it's very easy to put yourself VASTLY outside of a safe range.
To use some rough numbers (ie: Please don't go quoting these as gospel, they're subject to change and I'm not even referencing them in game right now - they're ballparks to demonstrate the point)... you may have a situation where the difficulty for a spell is something like 1-400 ranks and once you stuff in the sorcery penalty it's like 2-800. So if you're casting at low mana values your difficulty maybe something like 2-100. Now you throw in a symbiosis and suddenly your difficulty before sorcery) is something like 250-1150... and after sorcery it's like 500-2300. At low mana values you're increasing the difficulty by one OR TWO orders of magnitude. Boom.
I'm not saying don't combine them. I'm saying be aware that combining them is VERY hard. You're taking a system that is designed to be hard and punish overestimating your capacity and mixing it with a system designed to make everything harder.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
>>Symb is a really great training tool, and I know all of my characters switch to it as soon as they are able, to save mana while training. I'd be sad if you couldn't use it with sorcery, but I do understand sorcery is meant to be difficult and punishing.
Yes and no.
What happens is that the symbiosis pushes up the min difficulty by a flat amount so you get weird situations like casting an intro spell with a symbiosis at 1 mana is as hard as casting an esoteric spell without a symbiosis at 1 mana. And then Sorcery goes in and throws a multiplier on that based on how bad the mana mix is and suddenly you're trying to cast a spell with a difficulty off the charts at even 1 mana. You lose your granularity.
The backlash rate itself does't go up but the harder you challenge yourself with sorcery the more the system will smack you down. If you're operating in a safe range you're going to get fairly tame and with a symbiosis it's very easy to put yourself VASTLY outside of a safe range.
To use some rough numbers (ie: Please don't go quoting these as gospel, they're subject to change and I'm not even referencing them in game right now - they're ballparks to demonstrate the point)... you may have a situation where the difficulty for a spell is something like 1-400 ranks and once you stuff in the sorcery penalty it's like 2-800. So if you're casting at low mana values your difficulty maybe something like 2-100. Now you throw in a symbiosis and suddenly your difficulty before sorcery) is something like 250-1150... and after sorcery it's like 500-2300. At low mana values you're increasing the difficulty by one OR TWO orders of magnitude. Boom.
I'm not saying don't combine them. I'm saying be aware that combining them is VERY hard. You're taking a system that is designed to be hard and punish overestimating your capacity and mixing it with a system designed to make everything harder.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 07:45 PM CDT
>Symb is a really great training tool, and I know all of my characters switch to it as soon as they are able
As a moon mage with 580ish sorcery, i've been casting pfe at 10 mana + 14 mana in cambrinth + chaos symbiosis for a long time without any issues to speak of. It's rare that i see any backlash at all and the few occasions i do, it's usually self contained. Locks sorcery in 17 to 20 casts iirc. As long as you're aware of the mana range of the spell you're casting, the difficulty of sorcerously casting that particular spell, how removed it is from your native frequency and your own abilities; symbiosis works consistently and safely for sorcery training.
My own native spells are more likely to kill or injure me without even touching symbiosis.
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As a moon mage with 580ish sorcery, i've been casting pfe at 10 mana + 14 mana in cambrinth + chaos symbiosis for a long time without any issues to speak of. It's rare that i see any backlash at all and the few occasions i do, it's usually self contained. Locks sorcery in 17 to 20 casts iirc. As long as you're aware of the mana range of the spell you're casting, the difficulty of sorcerously casting that particular spell, how removed it is from your native frequency and your own abilities; symbiosis works consistently and safely for sorcery training.
My own native spells are more likely to kill or injure me without even touching symbiosis.
Vote:
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ABSOLON
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/01/2016 09:11 PM CDT
Ah, that's what the correction he made was think.
The amount of mana put into a spell doesnt change the rare of backlash, but it does change the severity. Does that sound correct?
<<My own native spells are more likely to kill or injure me without even touching symbiosis.
Only when you gate and drink. ;)
But I'll also point out that I use the same method as Skaen at 480ish sorcery, which is finding the least backlash-ey spell possible. For moon mages that is specifically introductory cleric wards. He uses pfe and I use sos. The spells appear to be tuned as low as possible for their base backlash chance and since it's lunar's most friendly mana type the backlash severity remains very low at the level we cast them at. Mostly the stuns and minor nerve damage when it does in my case.
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The amount of mana put into a spell doesnt change the rare of backlash, but it does change the severity. Does that sound correct?
<<My own native spells are more likely to kill or injure me without even touching symbiosis.
Only when you gate and drink. ;)
But I'll also point out that I use the same method as Skaen at 480ish sorcery, which is finding the least backlash-ey spell possible. For moon mages that is specifically introductory cleric wards. He uses pfe and I use sos. The spells appear to be tuned as low as possible for their base backlash chance and since it's lunar's most friendly mana type the backlash severity remains very low at the level we cast them at. Mostly the stuns and minor nerve damage when it does in my case.
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SKL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/02/2016 07:13 PM CDT
Raesh,
You sure that the sorcery difficulty is proportional?
I stopped using symbiosis. Aura Sight at 100 mana wont teach, so I tried Machinist's Touch. The only mana level I begin to learn at is around 90 mana, but it's giving serious backlash (bleeders) around every 40 casts maybe.
Unless it's supposed to be this difficult?
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/02/2016 07:54 PM CDT
>>Unless it's supposed to be this difficult?
You have an extremely high sorcery skill, so you're going to struggle to find sorcery spells that teach well. You could try either finding a harder sorcery spell (that you had to invest less mana into) or playing around with symbiosis with a more modest spell (Machinst's Touch might be fine) and seeing what's the least mana you need to find a place you're comfortable with.
However, I would not expect the risk of sorcery to ever go away entirely. That's just not intended.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
You have an extremely high sorcery skill, so you're going to struggle to find sorcery spells that teach well. You could try either finding a harder sorcery spell (that you had to invest less mana into) or playing around with symbiosis with a more modest spell (Machinst's Touch might be fine) and seeing what's the least mana you need to find a place you're comfortable with.
However, I would not expect the risk of sorcery to ever go away entirely. That's just not intended.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/27/2016 05:46 PM CDT
After tinkering with this for awhile, I also believe that the backlash rate is too high since the changes. Have tried multiple different spells - ranging from lunar (easiest), to elemental (average), and life (hardest), with different difficulty tiers on each, and without using symbiosis now.. an find myself without a hand far, far too often.
Could this be reviewed further and tweaked?
LIURIDR
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/27/2016 07:09 PM CDT
What spells? What skills? What prep? How often are you getting backlashes? What ones?
Remember - backlashes did not go up across the board, they were normalized. In some cases this made them worse, in some cases this made them kinder.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Remember - backlashes did not go up across the board, they were normalized. In some cases this made them worse, in some cases this made them kinder.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 12:19 AM CDT
Aura sight, shadows, clear vision, instinct, air bubble, tranquility, ethereal shield, athleticism, zephyr, ys, rising mists, will of winter, ts, shear, psy, and rend. Just shy of 1200 sorcery. Prepping between 35 and 60, depending on the spell, except for will which is usually around 550.
Losing a lot of hands, often.. where before I would lose one maybe occasionally, and that was even while weaving symbiosis in.
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 11:04 AM CDT
I toyed around briefly with your set up and off the cuff I'd recommend using more mana. I was able to cast a 100 mana Machinist's Touch (So intermediate lunar) and move several mind states in one cast with relative safety. Is it going to backfire sometimes? Yes. Sorcery will never be safe. If having backfires is unacceptable then sorcery will never be acceptable to you.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 11:16 AM CDT
Well, let me rephrase. Forgot I had not included cambrinth in it, but I'll tinker with it further. Most of my casts wound up being in the 50-100 range, and I was not noticing a difference in backlash rates between them.
I don't mind the occasional backfire, but when I'm running a routine and I'm losing my hand multiple times over the course of a couple hours? That seems excessive.
Have you tested other spells other than machinist's touch? I've seen you reference it twice as your basis of testing in this thread, and I tend to aim more for spells that have more use for me beyond it just teaching sorcery.
DR-RAESH
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 11:23 AM CDT
MT is just useful to test with since it's an intermediate lunar spell which is likely going to be the sweet spot for you (Though your skills are so high there could be another combination that works out better depending on your goal if learning vs minimizing risk). This is a full list of spells that meet that criteria (That aren't signature):
Cage of Light
Machinist's Touch
Telekinetic Storm
Thoughtcast
Unleash
Burn
And, yes, that's kind of a thin list. You're suffering from the lack of sorcery only spellbooks and a second lunar guild (So Trader Magic might end up benefiting you quite a bit - particularly since Moon Mages have a LOT of spells that have to be signature for mechanical reasons - including one spell shy of three entire spellbooks and anything that interacts with moonbeams). Antinomic Sorcery will also be of a benefit to you as it rolls out (And there's some interesting things happening there - Grejuva has awesome ideas).
How often are you getting backfires OTHER than losing a hand? Is it just that specific one that is problematic for you?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Cage of Light
Machinist's Touch
Telekinetic Storm
Thoughtcast
Unleash
Burn
And, yes, that's kind of a thin list. You're suffering from the lack of sorcery only spellbooks and a second lunar guild (So Trader Magic might end up benefiting you quite a bit - particularly since Moon Mages have a LOT of spells that have to be signature for mechanical reasons - including one spell shy of three entire spellbooks and anything that interacts with moonbeams). Antinomic Sorcery will also be of a benefit to you as it rolls out (And there's some interesting things happening there - Grejuva has awesome ideas).
How often are you getting backfires OTHER than losing a hand? Is it just that specific one that is problematic for you?
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 11:30 AM CDT
I'll get occasional ones that give me headache/twitching, and occasionally the one that gives boiling sores all over the body.. but losing a hand is super high, and really the annoying one. Especially since it's somehow built into code that if you do not have a hand, you cannot search. Even though you still have two eyes and another hand..
Is there a way to tweak that down a little then?
And you're right, that list is thin to begin with, and that's even before all the restrictions. CoL requires moons, MT is well, MT.. could use TKS although that requires having garbage on the floor, thoughtcast has zero appeal, unleash is super specific and burn also requires outdoor and moons.
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 04:06 PM CDT
As an example, lost two hands in 30 minutes, and three hands in 90 minutes.
This is while hunting, rotating spells, and not just recasting sorcery over and over.
Before 3.2, would lose one maybe every few days?
Fun stuff.
ILLIENA
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 05:32 PM CDT
You might investigate basic elemental. I'm a bard that trains with Bless and MPP (with a symbiosis), and I only ever get the bottom four backlashes: nerves, headache, attunement drain and stun.
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/28/2016 06:20 PM CDT
Last spell I was using before Aura Sight was Air Bubble, which I was losing my hand to as well. Appreciate the suggestion though.
GRATRULES
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/29/2016 08:19 AM CDT
Havent seen any mention (SORRY if it has), but assuming, you have Cautious Casting and Sorcerous Patterns feats learnt? I find (not with as much Sorcery 200+) I rarely blow something off and learn just well. Using Life tier 1 spells (WM here). Takes a few minutes for me to lock.
URITEL
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/29/2016 12:26 PM CDT
Does cautious casting affect the severity of sorcery backlashes? When I read its' description, it sounds like the feat affects backfires but doesn't claim to affect backlashes.
GRATRULES
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/29/2016 12:44 PM CDT
Sorcerous Patterns:
Tact with Sorcerous Patterns reduces the chance of violently backfiring spells, as well as the severity when it occurs. Note: This only impacts spell casting. I.e. it does not affect the backlash rate or severity of research projects.
Cautious Casting:
With the Cautious Casting feat, you grow more proficient at avoiding injury when backfiring spells.
So with those two, SP helps you avoid a backfire, and CC helps avoiding the injury from it. I am assuming the backlash is from a backfire. So both would be recommended if training/using Sorcery (non guild spells).
Unless I misunderstand how they are working (together).
Tact with Sorcerous Patterns reduces the chance of violently backfiring spells, as well as the severity when it occurs. Note: This only impacts spell casting. I.e. it does not affect the backlash rate or severity of research projects.
Cautious Casting:
With the Cautious Casting feat, you grow more proficient at avoiding injury when backfiring spells.
So with those two, SP helps you avoid a backfire, and CC helps avoiding the injury from it. I am assuming the backlash is from a backfire. So both would be recommended if training/using Sorcery (non guild spells).
Unless I misunderstand how they are working (together).
SPACEUNICORN
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/29/2016 12:47 PM CDT
>> I am assuming the backlash is from a backfire.
Nope. It might increase the chance, but if you're casting at proper levels you're not going to backfire, anyways. Backlash is completely independent from backfiring (aside from if backfiring increases the chance of it happening) and can happen on any cast, anywhere in the difficulty range. In my experience, I was actually backlashing more at mana well below my casting cap, but that could simply be coincidence.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/29/2016 12:53 PM CDT
>>> So with those two, SP helps you avoid a backfire, and CC helps avoiding the injury from it. I am assuming the backlash is from a backfire. So both would be recommended if training/using Sorcery (non guild spells).
>>> Unless I misunderstand how they are working (together).
My understanding is that there is no direct link between backlashes and backfiring. There is an indirect association in that casting at higher mana compared to your skill increases the risk of both occurring.
>>> Unless I misunderstand how they are working (together).
My understanding is that there is no direct link between backlashes and backfiring. There is an indirect association in that casting at higher mana compared to your skill increases the risk of both occurring.
ABSOLON
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/29/2016 03:28 PM CDT
<<Tact with Sorcerous Patterns reduces the chance of violently backfiring spells, as well as the severity when it occurs.
<<I am assuming the backlash is from a backfire.
This is the in game description of the feat which are notorious for being a bit inaccurate. Backlash chance has nothing to do with backfiring.
The feat reduces the backlash chance of sorcerous spells directly. The severity of those backlashes gets reduced indirectly because severity is determined by how badly you fail the backlash chance. I.e. the more difficult the spell is to pull off without backlash the greater likelihood the backlash will be greater in severity. Easier spells to pull off without backlash end up with lower severity of backlash overall because you're less likely to fail as significantly.
The rest of this post is partly speculation, since I don't know for sure this is how it works as GMs have never explicitly confirmed it although it's been alluded to.
I think backlash severity (but not the chance of backlash) is also somehow tied to the mana used, which is why people with high levels of sorcery are probably seeing more severe backlashes than those with lower skill. I.e. They have to put more mana into the spells in order to be able to train it, so they end up seeing more severe, but not more frequent, backlashes. Unlike with non-sorcerous spell casting, symbiosis isn't an effective way to get around this, since it increases the difficulty of the spell which increases the backlash chance. This increase indirectly increases the backlash severity, offsetting at least partially or perhaps exceeding the benefit that using less mana due to the symbiosis has on the severity.
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<<I am assuming the backlash is from a backfire.
This is the in game description of the feat which are notorious for being a bit inaccurate. Backlash chance has nothing to do with backfiring.
The feat reduces the backlash chance of sorcerous spells directly. The severity of those backlashes gets reduced indirectly because severity is determined by how badly you fail the backlash chance. I.e. the more difficult the spell is to pull off without backlash the greater likelihood the backlash will be greater in severity. Easier spells to pull off without backlash end up with lower severity of backlash overall because you're less likely to fail as significantly.
The rest of this post is partly speculation, since I don't know for sure this is how it works as GMs have never explicitly confirmed it although it's been alluded to.
I think backlash severity (but not the chance of backlash) is also somehow tied to the mana used, which is why people with high levels of sorcery are probably seeing more severe backlashes than those with lower skill. I.e. They have to put more mana into the spells in order to be able to train it, so they end up seeing more severe, but not more frequent, backlashes. Unlike with non-sorcerous spell casting, symbiosis isn't an effective way to get around this, since it increases the difficulty of the spell which increases the backlash chance. This increase indirectly increases the backlash severity, offsetting at least partially or perhaps exceeding the benefit that using less mana due to the symbiosis has on the severity.
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URITEL
ILLIENA
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/30/2016 03:12 AM CDT
> Four hands lost today
I'm not sure why it doesn't like you, then. My bard with 1300 ranks spent 8 hours today training sorcery without a single hand lost. MPP and Bless with symbiosis, so not the best mana combination.
I'm not sure why it doesn't like you, then. My bard with 1300 ranks spent 8 hours today training sorcery without a single hand lost. MPP and Bless with symbiosis, so not the best mana combination.
JWARK4
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/30/2016 06:05 AM CDT
Just what I've personally noticed...
It's MUCH easier to simply train sorcery. It's much harder to actually use anything other than an intro level spell. This is just from what I've noticed myself and what people who buy scrolls from me have been telling me.
Intro has much less backlash chance now but if you even try to go up to basic you start backfiring like crazy.
It's MUCH easier to simply train sorcery. It's much harder to actually use anything other than an intro level spell. This is just from what I've noticed myself and what people who buy scrolls from me have been telling me.
Intro has much less backlash chance now but if you even try to go up to basic you start backfiring like crazy.
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/30/2016 12:19 PM CDT
Weird, maybe it just doesn't like me. I just lost another hand after practicing general magic for fifteen minutes.
Eh.
I'll consider the intro thing, which seems contradictory to what Raesh is saying, but what Raesh is saying doesn't seem to be the results I'm getting anyways anyhow.
JWARK4
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
08/30/2016 01:13 PM CDT
It's held true in the examples I've seen, which is quite a few at this point. Even someone I know with 1700+ sorcery can only train with an intro spell now.
Could be missing something but it's the same on my own character.
Could be missing something but it's the same on my own character.
URITEL
Re: 3.2 Backlash Rates
09/01/2016 04:06 PM CDT
So, I picked up an intro spell as suggested by players. Sadly a 100 prep intro spell (shadows) does not teach, however weaving it with symbiosis for around 50 does. Good news as well, I haven't lost a hand yet after a day of testing. I mean, it could be the way of RNG, and for multiple days using non-intro spells I would lose multiple hands each day, without even using symbiosis..
But so far, it seems my results are the same with what other players are saying, and not what the GM said.
Thank you for your suggestions, fellow players!
