For the record, myself and many other Warrior mages has expressed desire for a way to prevent unwanted injuries or deaths from the spell. I would still like to be able to cast "critter" and only send blots toward that type of critter. The following is true of the current CL spell.

It is the best spell I have for teaching target, one of the best I have for teaching PM and Harness. (completion of the spell review may change this)

It is my best spell for crowd control when my multi gets overwhelmed, and it works indoors where fire rain does not. (I live and hunt on Ratha and Aesry, a vast majority of the hunting grounds are indoors)

It is my best offense against a hidden foe. (people who expect warrior mages to train perception to fight a ranger or thief are being silly, that puts tert skill against prime skill) This spell pits prime skill against prime skill, TM versus Evasion.

In my opinion the spell is great in all aspects except accidental deaths. I will continue to call out warnings before I cast and drag the dead out for cleric assistance.

Wabo

I don't know how anyone could possibly interpret what I just said as having anything to do with RP.

For what it's worth, I don't see an problem with the spell as it is. You just have to make sure that people know you are using it, and where you are using it. Yell that you are casting, if they choose to ignore you or pay no heed, welp, I did my part.

Yesterday I killed a fellow who ran through my room five times in 15 seconds with 6 dobeks in the room. I'm sure as tootin' not going to try going toe to toe with 6, so I just started roasting them. Fifth time he ran through he got caught. Not sure if he was manually doing it, or if his hunting script had him jaunting around all over. Reguardless, I offerd assistance, was met with "That spell has GOT TO GO" and a curt refusal of aid. I did what I could in the situation, and moved on.

In any case, I doubt I would shut off the ability to harm others with the spell. It's a nice RP tool, even if it earns you the occasional baleful glare. I know I walk softer if I know WMs are in the area, and I am one. Leave it as it is.

<<Honestly, if it was meant to have a disadvantage I don't see how it can be cast indoors, it is classified as a target spell even though by all accounts it is a wild storm that you can't control, it would not be 100% avoidable by the caster, etc. >>

I'm not sure how the spell's ability to be cast indoors has anything to do with this topic of conversation. The spell is certainly not a storm. The lightning originates with the caster (that's how they don't get roasted) and jumps from one target to the next on it's own, in a series. (That's where the measure of uncertainty comes from. Where'll it jump next?).

~Arti

>>but when the player is injured because of the lack of attention, I have very little sympathy.

You know that weather the person hunts in search and kill mode with or without a script has no bearing on whether or not you would kill them with CL or not right?

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Blue Fire

<<You know that weather the person hunts in search and kill mode with or without a script has no bearing on whether or not you would kill them with CL or not right?>>

Actually it does make a difference, every time I cast CL I yell out a warning prior. I prep cl, harness mana, and yell casting chain lightning with one macro key, and cast the spell with a seperate macro key. Many times I have yelled the warning, and had people step into the room before I press the cast key. In these cases I wait for them to move before I cast. People who are paying attention and realize there is a warrior mage casting CL in the area tend to be much more cautios, then the people running a script that enters a room, checks for critter, if finds critters checks for players, if there is a player in the room, the script moves the player to the next room.

Yes there is still accidental hits, and with the current spell there always will be regardless of what precautions I try to use. But the chance of a death are significantly higher with people script traveling from room to room through the hunting area. At best a hunter script traveling has a slower response to warnings, at worst they are oblivious to the warnings because they are not paying attention.
Wabo

>>Someone who is not using a script is likely to check every room except the ones with people in it

And how to you propose they know when the person has left that room? I mean they could peer, but that is more effort than it is really worth. Most of the time when I am in search and kill mode, I run through every room, whether or not I know someone is in there, due to the fact they could have moved. Or they could be swarmed and need help, which I won't know unless I enter that room.

>>>and can make allowances to avoid certain rooms entirely on the fly, such as if they just saw chain lightning being cast in an adjcent room.

A good script writer could do the same.

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Blue Fire

>>All of which a script can do faster than a person

But if you are actually, I don't know, running your character yourself, you are more likely to see and pay attention to someone yelling "Chain Lightning being cast!" than most scripts will be.

Even if you are scripting ATK, you probably aren't paying as much attention to what is going on around you as someone who has to actually, I don't know, come up with their responses themselves on the fly.

Maybe you should, instead of complaining about how dangerous CL is, add some triggers or conditionals into your script to notice if someone in another room has just yelled out a warning on CL or FR, and not go that direction until the spell has been visibly cast?

I don't give a warning about the area effect spell my main character uses in a swarm situation because anyone affected by the spell is, in effect, asking for it, since you would have to be at melee with my character to be affected by it. Although a passing Barbarian might either be unhappy due to IF loss, or cause my spell to fail, since they still haven't fixed the AoE MR range issues. Not much different than traveling through a room where a Barbarian is using an AoE roar, I would think.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

---

Info Page http://kynevon.info
Mac OS X FE http://tinyurl.com/4btcl
Amagaim's What to Hunt Chart
Excel format: http://tinyurl.com/44jlt
HTML format: http://tinyurl.com/6tpls

A Warrior Mage is intended to be a destructive force when utilizing their full power. It's just part of the game.

Tunderclap, Frostbite, Chain Lightning, Fire Rain, and more that are kinda area affect.

We're dangerous. So's hunting. shrug

~Fyriestorme

>i dont see why if the lightning is bouncing around hitting hidden people that if theyres 10 pecs it might hit you once but if your alone it hits you 10 times, wouldnt it hit the same spot the same often no matter how crowded it was

No, it bounces from target to target, not location to location with something just happening to be in that location. Just like an electric arc that passes from one spot to the next, it has to have something to ground it when it jumps from point to point.


~Heroiklim

Can you look out the window, without your shadow getting in the way?

I actually agree with the extreme of one person setting up a chain not being realistic, but then again I haven't cast Chain Lightning in real life, so it's hard to compare.

Next time I'm about to be attacked by an assassin, that I somehow know is in my bedroom, I'll cast Chain Lightning in the room and see what happens.

Seriously, I have nothing productive to add to the discussion, other than to say playability's ability to trump realism, and the overall balance of the game, is based solely on the GMs' collective whim (eg Valdrik's decision to remove the thief/traders ability to use magical devices that required spell preperation). While part of me is curious to see what the WM guild GMs have to say on the point, it's such a minor point I'm not going to hold my breath for a response.


~Heroiklim

Can you look out the window, without your shadow getting in the way?

>>But no an object can't project electricty from itself and hit itself, it needs two points to complete its cycle. If you were floating in the air (not likely) and grab an electrical wire that was cut you would be fine, if you then grabbed the other end you'd fry.

Hands and head (and tail for certain races) as points of projection/reception.

And ionization might occur as the lightning leaves the first projection to hit, a split second later, at one of the other bodily projections.

Just something for you to think about.

Or, since this is a targeted spell, and it creates one optional "primary" matrix (the one created by actually using the "target" verb), and a number of secondary matrices (for the bolts created that are in addition to the primary matrix), it can be assumed to jump fro matrix to matrix, with each matrix being the effective ionization point.

So, the CL blast goes from the caster to the primary matrix, then zips out and works like a smart missile as it then goes looking for the next matrix, and so forth until it runs out of power/matrices to find.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

---

Info Page http://kynevon.info
Mac OS X FE http://tinyurl.com/4btcl
Amagaim's What to Hunt Chart
Excel format: http://tinyurl.com/44jlt
HTML format: http://tinyurl.com/6tpls

>>Hands and head (and tail for certain races) as points of projection/reception.


Well, not a science major, but last I checked electricty/lightning had to circulate through your body so jumping from hand to head to chest to feet wouldn't work.

>>And ionization might occur as the lightning leaves the first projection to hit, a split second later, at one of the other bodily projections.

Yes I thought of that but when bouncing from yourself to yourself your still ionized <g> Chain Lightning sometimes goes

Player Y gestures.
Lightning Strikes Player X in the Chest.
Lightning Strikes Player X in the Chest.
Lightning Strikes Player X in the Chest.
Lightning Strikes Player X in the Back.
Lightning Strikes Player X in the Abdomen.
Lightning Strikes Player X in the Abdomen.

So you have lightning shooting out turning around and strike them back in the chest o.O


As to all of Valcers comments he's just pissed that his hiding can't make up for evasion. Hiding was never made for you to avoid having to check your evasion. Big design flaw in it that people abused so long. Hiding won't make you dodge an arrow, it'll make it so they don't know where to shoot, now if they shot at everything in site you'd probably get hit. As for the how do you target someone if you can't see them, you don't its simply hitting everything it possibly can and you happen to be the only thing it can hit.


I do have a problem with CL nerve damage though, sometimes it barely scratches you and you got complete paralysis of the entire body, thats an insane hinderence on pretty much anything you can do.

As far as the TM point per Evasion Point, nothing in this game is 1:1. Person with 40 less bow skill then I have evasion can nail me with a snap shot of a bow. I've had people with 20 less melee then my evasion hit me, and hit me hard enough to knock me out in a challenge.

According to a post made by Talian (god rest his soul in GM heaven) even though theres no messaging the way its supposed to work is that it comes from the caster, then it bounces from each object in order.

so if you get

Warmie gestures.
Pecc 1 fried
pecc 2 fried
pecc 3 fried

It would have bounced from pecc 1,2,3 in that order. But chain lightning isn't exactly real lightning so it may not always follow the same principles

again how is one person targetted with the matrix if you dont see the person or are even aware hes there

and if its heatseeking magic it should hit the caster or a bird before someone hidden behind a log he doesnt see


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

your absolutely right Valcer also GMs please change it so that if the room is barren of objects above knee level staying hiding is impossible unless the target stands perfectly still.

Also while advancing in hiding theres a random chance a twig will snap you'll kick a rock and you'll be found out.

Again while advancing in hiding since you have to move from object to object they'll be a very large chance the person will sight you because really its kidna hard jumping from tree to tree to close in on someone and without them noticing you when each tree is atleast 20 feet apart from the next. If the target is generally facing in your direction and you move from one spot to another unless you crawl on the ground (round time about 20 seconds each distance closed actually to make it fair 30 seconds more realistic) their going to see you.

please institute these changes right away.


Stop with the stupid arguements theres no way to account for every bird flapping in the air and every tree in the room, if theres only one tree in the room and 20 feet later a small bush not likely your going to be able to hide yet you can sprint into melee just fine in hiding in the same room. Spell shoots lightning in every which direction only thing that it can account for is you, if you want to start saying tree or bird then lets add those to hiding and every action you do in hiding will give you an extreme penalty to be found. Also they don't have to point you out just see you and your as good as not hidden. Random chance aswell as a skill based check for everything in hidng should make it more realistic.

>>Uh, a mage can't target a person in hiding, so they have 2 choices. Either cast without targetting, which will lower the accuracy of the lightning, or target something else in the room that they can see and get the full benefit of targetting. Only the first target is affected by the targetting matrix.


You misunderstood what he said, he basically said how can the spell be cast on him if the mage doesn't know he's there. Mage doesn't know he's there matrices shouldn't know either. Again just translating

>You misunderstood what he said, he basically said how can the spell be cast on him if the mage doesn't know he's there. Mage doesn't know he's there matrices shouldn't know either. Again just translating

I didn't misunderstand, but neither did I properly explain. I assumed everyone had a freshman knowledge of how magic worked in Elanthia, I apologize.

TM spells: First the mage creates the spell pattern (prepare <spell>), this pattern is created in the vicinity of the mage, and therefore can not be affected by any skill or resistance of anything in the room. Second the mage creates the target pattern (target <victim>) on the intended target. This pattern is subject to MR, which will lower the accuracy of the matrix. Third, the matrix (power) of the spell is released. The matrix begins at the spell pattern, and travels toward the target matrix. How accurate the matrix is depends on the skill of the caster (to simplify: PM to overcome MR, and TM to overcome evasion).

Chain Lightning differs from other TM spells in that once the matrix travels to the initial target pattern, the energy of the spell continues to jump around the room, jumping from target to target. In all rights this shouldn't be based on the TM of the caster, but it is for playability and lack of a better means of determining accuracy of the latter bolts.

The initial target pattern can not be placed on/around the person in hiding, because the mage can not see their location to create the target pattern. The remaining bolts after the first CAN hit the person in hiding.

The mage knows there's a metal pole behind a tree in the vicinity, but doesn't know which tree it is behind. Since he doesn't know where the pole is, he can't target it. There is another pole that he can see, so he places the target pattern upon that one. When he releases the matrix, the lightning strikes the pole he targetted. The positive energy of the lightning is then attracted to the negative polarity of the pole behind the tree. Seeing where the lightning travels, the mage now knows where the hidden pole is located.

No target pattern is needed to hit something in hiding with subsequent bolts, because it is no longer travelling along a path set by the mage, but rather the spell has gone wild and out of control of the casting mage.


~Heroiklim

Can you look out the window, without your shadow getting in the way?

The only problem I see, and I've mentioned this at the beginning of the thread, is that the spell can be cast with no target in the room. If there is no other target, then the spell shouldn't be able to be completed, since the targetting pattern can not be setup, and the spell pattern would collapse without something to target the matrix against.


~Heroiklim

Can you look out the window, without your shadow getting in the way?

With that same logic you, the mage, should be able to cast and fire a fire shard at nothing though when you try IG, that is not the case. You can prep FS all day long but if you don't have a target, then the mana is wasted. That is what I think the argument is about. Now if there IS a target in the room that can be seen, then subsequent hiders in the room would also become targets with CL because of the very nature of electricity and a person is more likely to be hit than a tree because a person offers less resistance to the electricity than a tree. Path of least resistance... add any piece of conductive metal regardless of whether it is put away or not and you have a direct path from targetted creature to hidden creature. Lightening doesn't notice burlap when it has a nice shiny sword to get to. Now along the same lines, a person sporting chain mail or better yet plate mail, is nothing but a beakon to said electricity and short of a gold rod shoved in the ground, the person in said armor is toast.


Celinor

"Chain Lightning is what is called an Area Effect spell, as it affects everything in the room, other than the caster. Note that one of the key words there is everything."

I have raised this issue before- so how is the area affect spell teaching target? Somehow the Area Effect spell is creating target matrixes around everything in the room, even those that are unseen.

This opens up some interesting possibilities. Since TM is creating targetting matrixes of all in the room, including those that are invisible or hiding, there is no reason that theoretically a mage shouldn't be able to locate invisible or hidden folks in a room by using TM skill. Especially war mages, though as a cleric I would like to be able to do so too.