<<I thought cl and other spells were sposed to be fixed soon to make them less accurate and damaging then spells that you have to actually target

CL is a lot less accurate than a fully targetted spell. Also, the spell teaches lousy per capita. If I were to go up to each pecc, and kill it with GZ, or LB even, it would teach me more TM, than blasting 4 peccs with CL at once. I can 1 hit a peccary with a 15 mana fully targetted LB, though a 20 mana CL might kill 2 peccaries if i'm lucky. Higher tier spells should naturally do more damage, per mana point, and that is what the change did. More mana makes the spell more powerful. Those who can cast it at a higher mana level, will just make it that much more powerful.

Thoumas

---

The fendryad leaps in with an odd glitter in her green eyes.
She points at Xardos, calling, "Hi, Dad, I'm home!"
>
You ask, "Mind if we kill your daughter?"
>
Xardos chuckles.

>"significantly tougher to cast,"

Yeah I started backfiring and even got a bit o nerve damage after the changes were put in because I was trying to cast it the same way as I did with the old CL.

'Slimy Yet Satisfying' - Miko Mido

Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius

<<CL is a lot less accurate than a fully targetted spell.>>

CL is fully targeted now. First bolt goes after the target rest of them are random.

<<I'm curious now though.. the GM announcement it was said that it is now "significantly tougher to cast," so why is Valcer hearing it was made stronger? Exactly what about it was changed that might not of been mentioned in the GM announcement?>>

Valcer magically knows things about every ability his guild doesn't have, don't you know that?



Rigek

"Heh I never really liked him anyway...he wasn't right in the head..."

and i have a warmie along with every other guild, i have 2 accounts with 10 characters each

and your insane if you try to tell me CL is less accurate them TM spells, any mage can hit someone 10 circles over with CL that they would never hit with fireshard, the gms even said nontargeted spells wore more accurate is they they was sposed to be changing em to make targetted ones better, and all the 70 plus warmies in rossmans say its the best teaching spell of all even if they cast a tm spell and kill the same number one by one




Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

I do not believe CL to be overpowered damage wise. I can just as easily cast a fully targeted LB or AEL and do the same (if not more)vitality damage than all the bolts from my CL do to a single target. My only concern is that the nerve damage is a little high. Near misses still do a decent amount of nerve damage :shrug: Again when fighting critters this is more balanced than when fighting players.

---

http://www.wowway.com/~dgossiaux/simucon/ - SIMUCON 2004 PHOTOS!!!

well duh ya comparing it to LB which is the same kinda death from above thing, i promise you, you can hit things with CL that you will miss with a targeted FS , never in my life has a warmie smaller then me fried me with a targetted spell they snap lb or cl, and every rossman mage seems to think it teaches the best and is the most powerful from what i hear and see used


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

>That, in my opinion, has always been an issue with the messaging. There's apparently two levels of 'miss' messaging - one where you actually dodge the bolt entirely, and one where it says you dodge the bolt, but actually don't dodge it completely.

No, it's a complete whacked out bug. Complete utter misses still do nerve damage.

Here's a nice example for you, a WM casting rapid fire minimum prep snap cast GZs at a Barbarian who is 83 circles higher than him, and at full Inner Fire the entire time. Yes, 83 circles.

---

Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Three blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the final arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest.
He is in good shape.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Three blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the final arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest.
He is in good shape.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest.
He is in good shape.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest, some minor twitching.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Three blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the final arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest, some minor twitching.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest, some minor twitching.
>
Halcier says, "All right, those were all minimum prep."
>smile
You smile.
>
Halcier says, "No pathways, either."
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest, some minor twitching.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest, some severe twitching.
>
Halcier traces an arcane sigil in the air.
>
Halcier reaches out toward Grungy with his right hand.
Two blasts of electricity arc from Halcier to Grungy!
He manages to get out of the way of the first arcing blast of electricity!
He manages to get out of the way of the second arcing blast of electricity!
>l grung wound
You see War Chief Grungy Fistsmasher, a Dwarf.

He has some faint scars along the head, tiny scratches to the left arm, faint scuffing to the right hand, faint scuffing to the chest, difficulty controlling actions.

---

I don't really know what else to say, I'd say the log speaks for itself. The WM obviously had no chance to hit the Barb, the BMR alone was likely ripping the targeted matrix to shreds.

So why are you rewarded for a complete failure? This is one of the most annoying bugs to me, and I really wish it would be freaking fixed already, it's been around ever since the big magic rewrite.

Dragoonseal

First, Valcer, LB is a targetted spell. And yes, chain lightning teaches best compared to lower tier spells for higher level mages. So what? You disagree that the higher level spells should be noticably better than the lower level spells?

As for Dragoonseal... your example has NO revelance to what we were talking about. We were talking about chain lightning.

Gar Zeng's nerve damage is not tied to whether the spell hits or misses. It does a fixed amount of nerve damage every cast, whether that cast hits or not. It's not a bug, in the sense that you're thinking of, since it was a deliberate design choice.

Chain lightning, on the other hand, only does nerve damage when it hits. The issue is that there is a level of success that appears to be a miss, when in reality the target is still receiving minor amounts of damage. The difference between chain lightning and gar zeng is that you CAN dodge chain lightning completely and come out unscathed, or block all the bolts with shield.

I agree that gar zeng should not be dealing nerve damage on complete misses; this is likely going to be rectified in the ongoing spell review. Chain lightning was recently updated to fit within the new guidelines for power/teaching for TM spell, so it appears to be working as the GMs intend it to. I'm sure feedback would be more than willing to hear your opinion if you disagree, though.

---

Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."

No, it isn't. It is castable indoors and shield blockable.

---

Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."

>doesnt mean it doesnt use the same type of things it never hardly misses anyone even if they have more evasion then your tm, and it requires no aiming, just walk in room cast 1 second everyone dead even hiding

Are you including shield ranks in that, or just straight evasion versus TM? If the latter, I don't see a problem.

~Heroiklim

It's SvA spells that are being "fixed". Certain spells, such as lightning bolt and burn, were (are still, in the case of burn) using combined SvA and TM mechanics.

SvA spells, in general, were doing too much damage. Branch Break, in particular, is basically just as deadly as any TM spell - and it's not supposed to be. SvA spells are having a cap placed on their damage.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LIGHTNING BOLT OR CHAIN LIGHTNING. Since SvA is getting nerfed, lightning bolt consequently became a full TM spell (allowing it to retain, and even gain power).

At no point did ANYONE say LB/CL were being "fixed" (read: nerfed). I'm not sure where you got that impression, Valcer, but you're way off base.

actually no i dont expect anyone to hit me with 200 in bow without aiming if i have 200 evasion., certainly not kill me in one shot while hidden


CL uses TM but its not a targetted spell it requires no aim, its a spell vs agility that has no targetting aspect just cause it uses targeted magic skill




another example of a warmie in rossmans admitting cl just got way better when in fact it was already the most powerful spell in the game, the only ability in all dr regardless of circle that killed 5 gmnpcs in 1 second and 7000 outcasts in one day and negates all stealth combat and can kill anyone with equal evasion to your TM in one non aimed instanous shot


Zaltonion says, "I switched to frostbite...ya don't as readily from that."
>
Twinklie pokes Zaltonion in the ribs.
>'frostbite i usually offer them a chance to step outside and recieve one hit back
You say, "frostbite i usually offer them a chance to step outside and recieve one hit back"
>
Zaltonion says, "but then the gods made CL so much better."
>
Zaltonion whimpers softly.
>'one wound for one wound


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

>>another example of a warmie in rossmans admitting cl just got way better when in fact it was already the most powerful spell in the game, the only ability in all dr regardless of circle that killed 5 gmnpcs in 1 second and 7000 outcasts in one day and negates all stealth combat and can kill anyone with equal evasion to your TM in one non aimed instanous shot

Of course, you ignore the fact that the mage that killed 5 GMNPC's in 1 second had 700+ TM at the time. Add to the fact that after that incident, CL was downtweaked. The current version of CL does is not as powerful as the original incarnation, nor is it nearly as accurate as a single lightning bolt. The reason that it is being sung praises is likely because it is less accurate, which leads to lighter hits, which leads to more hits, which leads to better teaching.

As to the 7,000 outcasts in one day, it was probably closer to 5,000, and it was fire rain and not chain lightning. Considering that they are listed as 70th circle critters, and the warrior mage had at least 60 circles on them, I'm not sure that's so off the mark.

>>CL uses TM but its not a targetted spell it requires no aim, its a spell vs agility that has no targetting aspect just cause it uses targeted magic skill

Depends entirely on how you wish to define a "TM" spell. Apparently, our GMs define TM spells differently than you do. Alas!

>>being able to cast 2 times at 95% of the power at least of the original for the price of one cast is a huge boost to what every warmie friend i ever had will admit was the most powerful spell already, not to mention the main one ive seen own in every major fight sides regular LB too which is similiar

97% of all statistics are made up. "95% at least of the original power" eh?


-Aurica.

Valcer,

No problem with you complaining. Let's try to be accurate with your complaints though.

What do I mean? Let's go down the list of your lies and exagerations...

FIRST INACCURACY
>CL uses TM but its not a targetted spell it requires no aim, its a spell vs agility that has no targetting aspect

Incorrect. CL is a TM spell. This is evidenced by
1. Shorter prep time that all TM spells have
2. AC works on it
3. 2-Way blockable by Voi.

Heck, even Hybrid TM/SvA spells are only 1-way blockable by VoI and have the longer prep time and AC barely helps.

>regardless of circle that killed 5 gmnpcs in 1 second

OK. I responded to your first statement. Now this is silly. I won't waste breath responding to the rest of your posts when anyone regardless of circle can kill 5 GMNPCS in 1 second.

I'm down with having a discussion. However, judging from your exagerations and lies, you are not.

Thanks.

<<it is not a TARGETED spell is what i say, thus should not be as powerful as a targetted spell of the same guild, be like barbs gettin the ability at 40th level to snap shot more accurately then if they aim, it would make them snap shot ALL the time>>

Chain Lightning is a TM a Targeted spell in every sense of the word, and in every sense of the magic system. It uses the precise same mechanics as all the other TM spells. If that doesn't make a spell "targeted" I don't know what else would.

~Valdrik


<--- Warrior Mage Haiku --->
My pants are aflame
I did not learn water spells
so now I must ARGGHHHH

http://www.livejournal.com/users/valdrik/

http://www.naebunny.com/TopFrameSet.htm

>>My main point was to ask you why from a game design perspective you would make this spell the best, or one of the best, ways to learn TM?

You do know that all TM spells are undergoing a change in how they work, and how they train TM, so as to make it more skill-appropriate as to which TM spell(s) will teach each Warrior Mage appropriately.

Unfortunately, only a few of the WM spells have yet been moved over to the new paradigm yet, mainly FRS, LB, CL and sprobably SStrk.

Once it is all done, and the additional spells in development are released, you should start seeing Warrior Mages casting more than just GZ, AEL and CL to learn TM.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

---

Info Page http://kynevon.info
Mac OS X FE http://tinyurl.com/4btcl
Amagaim's What to Hunt Chart
Excel format: http://tinyurl.com/44jlt
HTML format: http://tinyurl.com/6tpls

CL is intended to be chaotic/dangerous to use.

Not everything should be convenient.

i have well over 330 evasion my friend

and GM guy ya didnt listen to my statement i said yes its TM SPELL

it is not a TARGETED spell it may be defined as a target spell cause of its mechanics but it doesnt require targetting for full power, the lack of targetting makes it a non targetting spell, like a bow that doesnt have to aim to achieve max power would not be an aim bow if it used bow skill


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

and i never said u had no skills i said noone else can do it even your level and even if they had your tm in a weapon, noone could kill 5 major gmnpc with a non aimed single shot


have someone prove me wrong


and hiding did not provide immunity even before cl it had two skill defense, hiding and perception you could train either

making magic,weapons,perception,hiding and a watch command all defeat hiding is going a lil overboard, im still waiting for a no skill command to boost my magic defense like watch and a stealth ability to negate evasion


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

Valcer, CL does require targetting for its FULL POWER. Just like all TM spells. Like all TM spells, you don't hae to TARGET something. Now, the first bolt is the only bolt that increases in power with a FULL TARGET. Now the power of each bolt after the first bolt, I can not confirm that the power is the same at full target or not.


Goou Laughter, protector of the bovines.

P.S. Don't harm the aurochs.